Has anyone used aikido in real life situations?

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by ryanhall
Aikido MIGHT work if only it was trained realistically. Since it's not, it won't. If boxers point sparred, they would suck too. Having you attacker hand you his arm or wrist is the antithesis of realism. For God's sake, guys, this is ridiculous. Locks and restraining is not for balls to the wall survival. Period.

Isn't that what we are saying? but not every real life situation is a balls to the wall survival situation.

One question, when a person would train only one technique but trained that against any possible attack, would he profit from it in a real life situation? will he be able to apply the technique?

[chris davis 200]

Chris - can you tell me if Aikido has ever featured in any No Holds Barred event? I haven't seen it. Surely it must feature if it is as good as you say?

I agree with Toudiyama. Why do you not see just karateka, just TKD, just Wing chun, just Muay Thai, just JuJutsu, Just Judo, Just Ninjutsu, Just Lau Gar etc etc etc etc.

You dont see singular arts in NHB contests. The reason being that they are SPORTS CONTESTS!!!! the obsession people have with this type of SPORT fighting is quite funny!!

The atheletes in these contests train in a number of arts. and only arts that work in the format of the CONTEST ARENA!

Aikido MIGHT work if only it was trained realistically. Since it's not, it won't.

as i said before, just cause you havnt seen it, doesnt mean it isnt. I know it is, especially in Daito Ryu aiki JuJutsu.

Locks and restraining is not for balls to the wall survival. Period.

If you think this is the only situation you will face you are wrong.

Punches and kicks are not for this either, punch a determined strong opponent in the face and they will just keep on coming, this is not a solution. Look at UFC, these guys get punched up like it aint no thing and just carry on, after a while punches dont hurt too much, especiallyu if your a hardened street fighter used to 'balls to the wall' survival.

cheers
chris

[swan104]

In the video, why do the attackers do those rolls/flips so easily after the lock?

[chris davis 200]

cause it is training. It would be a bit harsh to throw someone into their face!!

If you look at when they roll and before they do drop the throws height by about a foot, they will be going head first into the floor - without the being able to roll.

The reason this level of realism is not trained is because you would not have any training partners able to train if you did this.

At a high level quite often there is only a couple of inches between the head and the mat as the throw is performed. drop a couple of inches and the persons neck is broken.

cheers
chris

[chris davis 200]

ref steven seagal,

He is a 7th Dan in Aikikai - not a very harsh form of aikido and his is very effective. He is by no means a one off.

cheers
chris

[pseudoswitch]

Originally posted by chris davis 200
ref steven seagal,

He is a 7th Dan in Aikikai - not a very harsh form of aikido and his is very effective. He is by no means a one off.

cheers
chris

Hi Chris,

Can you point us to any video clips of the harder forms of Aikido/Aikijujitsu on the net? Would you regard Yoshinkan or Tomiki as being harsher than Aikikai?

Cheers,

pseudo

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by pseudoswitch


Hi Chris,

Can you point us to any video clips of the harder forms of Aikido/Aikijujitsu on the net? Would you regard Yoshinkan or Tomiki as being harsher than Aikikai?

Cheers,

pseudo

have you tried searching with Lycos
I tried it

http://multimedia.lycos.com/results.asp?component=MoreVideo&query=yoshinkan&x=29&y=5

gave a couple of clips but do not know if it is what you are looking for (can't watch them at work because they block mediafiles)

[chris davis 200]

i would say that Yoshinkan can be quite harsh, tomiki is also quite good but is a sporting format.

As usual most sites will have a good demonstration of aikido breakfalling!! by this i mean that the UKE will be expecting the throw.

this guy is very good. He has broken collor bones and the like on people that where not going where they expected.

Because it is an aikido Demonstration the attacks will mostley be Shomen (downward strike).

http://www.aikiweb.com/multimedia/videos/chida.html

Here is one link.

cheers
Chris

[Guest]

Strange argument.

person 1 - Aikido is the best thing since sliced bread.

person 2 - no it isn't, it is next to useless.

person 1 - It is awesome and can be used to defend yourself in a real fight.

person 2 - Are any of the techniques used in NHB competition?

person 1 - Of course not, only a fool would not mix their martial arts for that.


Actually, only a fool would prattle on about Aikido being great and then claim that you have to mix martial arts to be effective. You can't have it both ways.

And guess what? The people who do mix martial arts and win in these competitions don't seem to use ANY Aikido techniques at all.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Bullshit!

They don't slice bread!

Do they?

[chris davis 200]

QUOTE]Actually, only a fool would prattle on about Aikido being great and then claim that you have to mix martial arts to be effective. You can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE]

I have not said that you have to mix martial arts to be effective!!!

I did say

The atheletes in these contests train in a number of arts. and only arts that work in the format of the CONTEST ARENA!

The contest arena. Understand. the .... contest ...... arena!!!!!!!!!!!!

Such as Brazilian JJ. A competition based art. Such as Muay Thai. A competition based art!

Do you see what i am saying?? these are competition arts not the same thing as aikido or other Martial arts that do not actively engage in competition. This does not make them ineffective just means that they dont compete.

The people who do mix martial arts and win in these competitions don't seem to use ANY Aikido techniques at all.

Little secret for you here. they dont practice aikido - so why would they??

dont quite understand tour point here? I am not interested in competitions. We are talking about using aiki in the street. I have.

Cheers Mate
Chris

[Guest]

So, to clarify (again)......

It isn't a competition art AND it isn't a fighting art.

It is a "controlling" art. Whatever the bollox that is supposed to mean.



There is none so blind as one who will not see.

[Toudiyama]

Bri, have you read the title of this thread?

IIt is not Is Aikido effective in real life, but has anyone used it, chris says he has and you as a result of your statements are calling him a liar

Real life isn't just the streets of Manchester at a weekend night
No-one stated it was the ultimate thing on the contrary but we said it had it's purpose
You on the other hand say it's useless and base that on your experience, the experience of one person out of all the people in the world

Oh your person 1 were actually more than one persons

[eXcessiveForce]

Originally posted by ryanhall

The ability to do what you do fluidly is a huge asset in all martial arts. Think boxers aren't fluid because they are very direct? Think again. How can you hit O'sensei? Do it like you should do it in a real fight. Don't let him know it's on until you've already landed your first hard shot. Also, there are a lot of silly myths regarding him (and many other elder masters).

Sure boxers are fluid. But you have Chris Byrd that doesn't take hits, and you have others who waddle around the ring and try to overcome a lack of mobility with power.



I also see a lot of people talk about demo's and how they show styles are crap. Demo's are like movies, they are not real. In a demo you cannot afford to injure someone. The only reason to do demos is to advertise your art, your school, or yourself. Demo's are about getting more students and making money. You show people flashy stuff even if it isn't from your system and you train the hell out of the routines so they flow perfectly. Then little jimmy sees it at tells his mom he has to take lessons there. And then we as instructors get paid.

Then in a late night instructor class you lock the door and start to train with the adults on things that would give little jimmy and his mother nightmares for the rest of their lives.

In the TKD demos would would use lots of aikido because it looks good and little people can do it on big people. And it doesn't look vicious. Vicious does not sell mothers on martial arts.

Give them the candy to start, the hard liquor comes later.

[ryanhall]

I also see a lot of people talk about demo's and how they show styles are crap. Demo's are like movies, they are not real. In a demo you cannot afford to injure someone. The only reason to do demos is to advertise your art, your school, or yourself. Demo's are about getting more students and making money. You show people flashy stuff even if it isn't from your system and you train the hell out of the routines so they flow perfectly. Then little jimmy sees it at tells his mom he has to take lessons there. And then we as instructors get paid.

Absolutely correct, EF, but systems that are made for actual fighting are not often taught to children. Look at the reality-based SD and combatives instructors--no b.s. in their ads. I realize that they are preaching to a different crowd than most, but I believe that my point stands nonetheless.

In the TKD demos would would use lots of aikido because it looks good and little people can do it on big people. And it doesn't look vicious. Vicious does not sell mothers on martial arts.

Right again, but vicious is what works better than anything else I know of.

Give them the candy to start, the hard liquor comes later.

I like it

Back to Chris:
I'm sorry, but though they are far from the same, competition techiques (the NHB kind) and self defense can have a lot of overlap. I don't really want to discuss this any further because I am tired of hearing that so-and-so is incredible if only I meet them and that a good instructor of Deadly Art X is nearly impossible to find. Competition or not, a BJJ black belt would likely make Steven Seagal cry.

Little secret for you here. they dont practice aikido - so why would they??

They use what works within their rules on a large, strong, and resisting opponent. If aikido fell into this category, it would become a mainstay of NHB training. I've never seen a wristlock or elbow throw in an MMA event. Have you? NHB is quite close to reality from the physical standpoint, minus some of the more vicious and mean tools that you seen in "reality" SD and combatives. Unless an Aikidoka is a master of said nasty tricks, there is no reason that he shouldn't enter a tournament and win it with his brilliant aiki skills. I am usually the last person to compare MMA to self-defense, but your position borders on ridiculousness. Honestly. Just because something isn't used in competition doesn't mean it works or doesn't work. Things are kept out for one of two reasons: 1) they run a high probability of maiming or killing someone they are done to. or 2) they JUST DON'T WORK. End tirade.