Side Kick

[Guest]

Of course there are loads of ways to do it. In Shukokai we used to turn side on to our opponent, assume that sill Horse Stance thingy, and then skip into it. It had some real power, but was the epitome of the telegraphed technique. I know there are other ways to do it too. But my question is this.

People in Thai Boxing DON'T really seem to have it. Whys that?

[Cain]

I have a couple of ways of doing it, one of them is kind of like a jab, half/side-facing, just throw it up and use it to push and confuse/fool. then we have the more sidefaced where you have more power.. but that one is generally too slow imho! so the jab-thing is what's getting used.

[ryanhall]

I'm guessing here, but it's probably because the side kick requires to turn peprendicular to your oppnent. When you're in a normal 45 degrees fighting stance, that means a lot of telegraphing without a lot of benefit. Since you're not allowed to take out the knee of the other boxer, the side kick suffers in comparison to the teep (push) kick as a stopper. Both the teep and the round kick can be thrown standing straight on towards the other guy, so they have more utilty in a Thai match. At least that's what I'm guessing.

[Tom Yum]

The Chinese version of MT (Sanshou) uses the side kick. I've been told Cung Le uses it

[ryanhall]

Cung Le does use it, but not in a normal way. It's either this weird spinning back side kick (turns to gain momentum and lays into the other guy). He also kicks past the other guy intentionally, wraps both of his legs around the opponent, and takes him down very hard. Saw them in a documentary about him.

[Tom Yum]

He chambers it like a front kick coming from the rear leg and at the last second rotates the hips and thrusts the kick.

[Great Sage]

Certainly, there are different ways of throwing the sidekick... It seems the better you are at kicking, the more efficient your sidekick may develop. Personally, I find my sidekick the quickest and least telegraphed... It's all in the way I deliver it. I use my front leg (left) without chambering fully and without turning my body or my pivot foot at all. The only movement is in my hip. I have found this works really well for me because the sidekick travels at a straight line as opposed to the round kick which comes like a hook.

[Toudiyama]

Tom Yum
That's the same way as in Wado karate, so it's not unique to that person or the art he does, it's probably the chinese method that got transfered to Okinawan Ryukyu Kempo karate-jitsu and from there to SOME Japanese karatesyles
We do NOT do this weird flappping up side kick (jap. Yoko geri keage)

I like ro pt a question here: what part of the foot do people use during a sidekick

Wado uses the side of the heel/foot(small toe side) and calls the kick after that part namely Sokuto followed by the height

As for the turned back kick(not the heel kick), it is a form of side kick which can be performed from a short distance with power provided you can chamber the leg to the extreme during the turn

this might allow you to still kick your opponent when they least expect it

[CHOKE UK]

Bri-Thai,
The side kick can be used but it's what I called "specialist" kick.
By that I dont mean that you need to be a specialist to use it.
But merely that there are only special situations when it should be applied.

The biggest problem is not with the technique, but with its application.

It is very difficult to make this your most effective kick, as someone else claimed in another post.

Karate teaches it and its ok for them with the "one-blow-joe" theory and scoring system, it lends itself to that.
But in a brawl or thai-type fight against a tough fighter, and proper thai fighters(from thailand, I mean) are bloody tough.
And one side kick isnt going to stop them, and now you will quickly find out that you are more than likely left exposed and vulnerable,and if not, then your momentum has been lost.
Because the kick has be used at an inappropriate time .

In a free-flowing fight/sparring, it is a cumbersome tool that can only be used at specific times.
Or it will easily be avoided and easily countered

The opponent has to be supremely effective at it to make it work against a competent fighter.

It looks good on the bags, if thats any consolation.
And I wouldnt say throw it out the arsenal, ....but because of it's tricky application, then maybe it is only used as a KATA - ONLY move!
You may not see it very often in mt/and kickboxing
but thats not because it isnt taught,
its because, like I say it is a kick that can only be used in certain situations.

Good luck with it......

[mr goodcat]

as long as theres no pain then any way is ok i guess

[bigred389]

I find that it can work in a heavily bastardized form in Thai Boxing.

Done "properly" with chambering and such or anything to telegraph it is pretty much no go.

However, I find it works ok when retreating for example...I like that the teep is much quicker to come out, but it has more recovery and is not as effective when moving back. A side kick gets a lot of power from simply extending your body, and can be done while moving back or pressured. It also comes back in much quicker, and you can shield with the same leg pretty quickly if you have a leg kick inbound.

And another advantage, initially at least, is a simple WTF factor for a lot of MT opponents as it's not something they're used to seeing.

That said, being used as a fast kick takes away the whole one shot-one kill type of destructive impact and makes it more of a keep away tool. So yeah...

[Tom Yum]

1. If you miss a thai-round kick, chamber and thrust the side kick at the ribs or thigh, maybe follow up with a spinning back kick too. If you miss the side kick too - better be able to move quickly or box in infighting range!

2. If your opponent slips outside one of your punches, follow up immeidately with a low stomping side kick to the thigh or knee (shorter-range technique).

3. If your opponent comes in with a barrage of head punches, you can lean back to avoid the barrage, and dig in with a side kick to the body. If he scoops or catches the kick before or after it lands, flex it ASAP to pull him in and throw some head strikes.

I saw a pankration fight in the late 80's where a kung-fu guy pretty much dominated a kickboxer and caught one of his legs. The kick boxer used the caught leg as a pivot and threw a jump spinning wheel kick to the kf guys head - instant KO - but that's risky!

[mr goodcat]

1. If you miss a thai-round kick, chamber and thrust the side kick at the ribs or thigh, maybe follow up with a spinning back kick too. If you miss the side kick too - better be able to move quickly or box in infighting range!

2. If your opponent slips outside one of your punches, follow up immeidately with a low stomping side kick to the thigh or knee (shorter-range technique).

3. If your opponent comes in with a barrage of head punches, you can lean back to avoid the barrage, and dig in with a side kick to the body. If he scoops or catches the kick before or after it lands, flex it ASAP to pull him in and throw some head strikes.

I saw a pankration fight in the late 80's where a kung-fu guy pretty much dominated a kickboxer and caught one of his legs. The kick boxer used the caught leg as a pivot and threw a jump spinning wheel kick to the kf guys head - instant KO - but that's risky!

well if someone shows proper economy of correct form and volume, knowing exactly at which distance he is from his opponent, always moving (footwork) so that his opponent will constantly misjudge the distance, then most punches will be very accurate

[kuk sool won]

Cung Le does use it, but not in a normal way. It's either this weird spinning back side kick (turns to gain momentum and lays into the other guy). He also kicks past the other guy intentionally, wraps both of his legs around the opponent, and takes him down very hard. Saw them in a documentary about him.

Thats a flying sissors, its a move many judo practioners will be familiar with.

Yeh the step behind side kick is slow but has extreme power, its has the raw power of a roundhouse combined with the pushing power of a teep. I beleive the normal side kick is a very under rated technique. It can be hidden by the preperation of a roundhouse or it can act as a feint itself and be turned into a hook kick, it has offensive and defensive applications, admittedly more so towards the latter. Plus as mentioned before its not common and so isnt always expected.

I saw a pankration fight in the late 80's where a kung-fu guy pretty much dominated a kickboxer and caught one of his legs. The kick boxer used the caught leg as a pivot and threw a jump spinning wheel kick to the kf guys head - instant KO - but that's risky!.

Thats an 'Inziguri' - all too related to 'commercial wrestling'...

[mr goodcat]

Unless there is another group of beings on earth that are structured differently from us, there can be no different style of fighting. Why is that? Because we have two hands and two feet. The important thing is, how can we use them to their maximum[potential? This leads us to study ourselves] in terms of [the potential] paths [our weapons can travel, and once we've analyzed that we discover that] they can be used in straight lines, curved line, up, round lines. The [round line, for example] might be slow, but depending on the circumstances, sometimes that might not be slow, and in terms of legs, you can kick up, straight--same thing, right? [You're studying yourself] physically, then, [which leads] you to ask yourself: how can I [learn to make my weapons maximally efficient in a very well coordinated manner? Well that means you have to [train like] an athlete--using jogging and all those basic ingredients, and after all that you [must] ask yourself, how can I honestly express myself at this moment? And being yourself, when you punch you really want to punch--not trying to punch [out of fear of being struck] or to avoid getting hit, but you to really be in with it and express yourself. Now this to me is the most important thing. That is, how in the process of learning how to use my body can i come to understand myself? - Bruce Lee