Demonstrations... Fake Stuff...

[Great Sage]

Demonstrations... Don’t you just love how demonstrators throw all these techniques while the other guy takes the onslaught?... The funny thing to watch for are half-hearted attempts to punch and kick by the guy playing the attacker. It’s usually a bad jab followed by nothing. Then, the demonstrator pulverizes the guy in convincing fashion. A good example is this mpeg showing “Street” Wing Chun Kung-fu. The WC Guy is shown throwing straight punches and landing at will on a guy in pads. The padded Guy throws maybe two generic punches and makes no attempt to defend.

Seriously, demonstrations are part of the marketing strategy and prove very little. Anyone who has done a demonstration understands the pre-arranged nature of performing. The fact that a guy can break 10 bricks makes little difference if he can’t fight.

Remember the first UFC how in the fighter profiles they showed all these people doing all these techniques, but when the fight came, all the techniques disappeared. That’s the false sense of security demonstrations present.

[pseudoswitch]

Yep, i agree with you, demonstrations usually involve a cooperative partner = nothing to do with fighting, where your 'partner' will not cooperate with you. They serve to illustrate techniques, but can those techniques work in a fight against a non-cooperative fighter? Maybe, maybe not.

That's what's so good about boxing, muay thai, judo, jujitsu; your opponent will be resisting and attempting to counter your techniques.

Regards,

[shasan]

I think the 'traditional' martial arts don't focus as much on sparring as boxing, muay thai, bjj etc do.

yay for sparring.

[pseudoswitch]

Originally posted by Crouchtig

providing you can handle the ethical/moral question of whether or not its right to teach someone something completely useless and pass it off as self defence, thus giving them a false sense of security.

I got into a debate about this very subject on the kung fu magazine forums. I was arguing that to teach techniques which you know to be inferior or in fact dangerous (if you attempt to use them ) to an unsuspecting or poorly informed person is immoral, and in my opinion, justifiably condemnable.

I certainly wouldn't be able to do that, ever. If i know something might not work in a realistic situation, i would have a very hard time accepting it, training it myself, let alone teaching it to someone else. The opinion of the person i was debating this with, was that running a martial arts school is a form of business like any other, and the usual business ethics apply. 'Caveat Emptor' seemed to be his perspective.

What do you guys think?

Regards,

[Calv1n]

Why the hell else would you do demonstartions other than for buisness reasons?

Any functional stuff isnt ussually flashy so of course you dont show that. You want to hook guys into training then you can show them all the functional junk later.....

[Guest]

"Remember the first UFC how in the fighter profiles they showed all these people doing all these techniques, but when the fight came, all the techniques disappeared. That’s the false sense of security demonstrations present."


An excellent observation. I've seen it so many times. Wonderfully acrobatic and complex gymnastics in the demo, and none of it in the fight. But so many people DON'T make the connection in their little brains. They don't just want to learn to defend themselves. They want to do it like Bruce Lee did in the films.

[Tom Yum]

In the first UFC's Shamrock, Gracie and Pat Smith were the only ones who were impressive. Pat Smith through a push kick at a guy and knocked him half-way across the octagon. In his match against Shamrock he was tapped out via a simple ankle lock, and tried to elbow shamrock's shin (didn't deter him at all).

[terry]

I have collected some lame martial arts demos that are hilarious. I have a video tape labeled "The Master" that has this totally bogus FMA demonstration by some skinny, out of shape guy and his looser students. I sometimes put it on when I have MA friends over.

They run through a lame, uncoordinated synopsis of a beginner's class. The drama increases when one student accidentally "kills" (yeah, right) one of the other students with a light rattan training stick during a badly done drill. The 'master' walks over to the apparently dead student, motions for silence in the room as he gathers his chi, and, with a loud kiai, strikes the student with a ridge hand to the side of the neck--and revives him! Of course, this receives thunderous applause which the 'master' soaks in triumphantly.

This kind of stuff, once you get a few beers in you with a couple of friends, is better than stand-up comedy.

Terry

[Toudiyama]

Any demonstration, even demonstration matches are fake, but isn't everything prearanged in martial arts actually fake
Even in a demonstration match the guys won't hit eachother as hard as they would when money, honour or their live is on the line
Only when the audience is involved, one can give a "true"demonstration BUT would you do a full powered technique on someone you don't want to hurt and don't know the skills of? Too soft and it doesn't work, too hard and it will do damage

Peronally, I liked to act as the one getting the hits and then trained my students to really hit me, this makes it "look"better
Little anecdote about that: we were holding an open day with several demos during the day, after one of the demos where my opponent finishes me with an elbow to the head, I let him hit my hand but move my head with the elbow, so you heard it hit.
after that demo we went to the dressingroom and a couple of older experience judoka adressed me and said:"it went wrong a bit, hae?" I was amazed, "what went wrong?" They thought the elbow really had hit me and we were 2 meters from the audience
I planned it to look real from the point of vieuw of the audience but never thought it looked that real

In Wado even when we do knifedefences we only show an excersie called "to dori" which isn't meant to teach defences against real life knife-attacks but rather to teach timing, bodymovement/mechanics and footwork with a slight added element of danger( because of this we rather train with steel than with wooden blades)

Funniest demos are with small TKD(or JJ) girl kicking 5 big guys or one litle kid doing the same ( I would do the reverse 5 kids against 1 guy)

[Toudiyama]

Thats nice for grabling arts demo but for a striking art I wouldn't use people from the audience

[retired]

But the fact that it's called a DEMONSTRATION explains everything surelly?
Anybody that watches one needs to remember that it is only showing techniques to gather interest just like when you saw your first MA demo so people always know that it's acted but it displays a rough idea of what's on offer from that association.

On a funny note i was in a kungfu club once & it was full of a bunch of nutters who decided to throw a demo in the middle of a town so we got a young kid to do some set forms & a supposive master teaching him but what the crowd didn't know was that we had 3 people dressed in everyday clothes in the crowd & they would continue to take the piss out of the demo until the crowd gathering started shouting & complaining to the 3 guys at which point 2 of them pulled out great big blades from under their jackets & attacked the master & the other guy was suppose to attack the little kid, it never got to this as a granny in the crowd started to beat up the 3rd guy with an umberella!!!! & just when the kid started to beat up the 2 guys attacking the master the police turned up and nearlly arrested us!!!!

It's funny now i think back to it & it wasn't ment to be serious.

[retired]

thats what you dont get get!!!! its all for show & havin a laff.

We done a demo once at a festival & it wasn't going very well (not much interest), then the sky opened & it started to hammer down with rain so we moved into a local hall & most of the people huddled in to watch the demo (more like avoid the rain) & we set up some tile breaking techniques & being crazy we just kept adding & adding to the amount of tiles & then started setting them on fire & getting a friend to destroy them with a head butt (the crowd went crazy with applause), we smashed one pile of tiles and they just exploded over the hall into little bits to the peoples joy.
Ok i know tiles dont fight back but under the circumstanses it served a purpose & brough interest into the club.

demo's are just that - demonstrations of differing attacks & movements that most people realise take a lot of time & dedication to master.

in some demo's you may see someone swing a stick at someone & he returns with a load of moves while the guy stands there but believe me this can happen as im about to tell you:

Place the scene: your kungfu instructor is walking home with his wife & baby in pram & 3 guys suddenlly jump out & start to harrase my instructor, normally he would try to talk his way out of it or just walk away but this time it was different, he had his family with him, so he waits to see what happens & without warning the 1st guy starts to attack him, he counters the first guy & locks his arm out instantly breaking it, the 2nd goes in & within a few seconds he's down (cant remember what was done), by now the 3rd one attacks with a stick & WHAM, my instructor goes with the flow of the stick (being a BO master HELPS!!!!) disarms & kicks the guy in the side of the kneecap smashing the joint.
They then hurry along leaving the 3 guys to go to hospital, later that week he tells me of what happens & he said that if he was on his own the outcome would have been different but because his family was there he just went into autopilot....shit happens.

This almost acted out like a demo.
You can believe this or take it with a pinch of salt, i care not.

[retired]

believe me when your older & your family is threatened a thing inside us which is normally dormant within your dna kicks in without warning to protect us & you go into autopilot not realising it.
It's a nasty world so survival of the fittest is the outcome.

[retired]

ha ha i like!!!
i have a demo tape somewhere of my old mates doing flying kicks over cars, spinning weapons while on fire & headbutting flaming tiles so i may post it if i get a chance in future.....it's mad & funny!!!

[retired]

Flying Kick Over Car (just)