unusual techniques

[Lizard]

Many martial arts contain straight punches to the face, roundhouse kicks and perhaps a few simple throws. But every so often I see a strange and imaginative technique. Most will not work in a real fight but are interesting to watch. Spinning and jumping moves are quite unusual, also things like using the legs to throw someone, feints, double hand moves, moves that involve throwing yourself to the floor, offensive blocks, standing submissions, holding an opponents arm then using a hook kick over the arm to pull them to the floor, using a hook kick to lock behind an opponent's head and choke them, punches to a floored opponent, wide stances, high kicks, shouting at an opponent, sticky hands (as found in wing chun), arm twist throws, axe kicks etc. Does anyone have any examples of unusual teniques and possible uses for them (to impress people or scare an opponent for instance).

[Disciple]

I have seen and do know people with enough skill to kick someone in the head, even in a street fight. It does work, but it's what I like to call an unnessecary risk. When your life is on the line, why use the fancier/cooler technique when a simpler more safe one will do.

[ryanhall]

I always thought it was a waste of time to practice something that was:
1) hard to learn
2) hard to perform
3) will never be used
4) is high maintenance if I want to continute to have the ability to do it

Why do all that when I could spend my time learning something simple and functional? I know a few people who are into this kind of acrobatic stuff. Some of them think they can pull it off in a fight--not gonna happen. It comes down to whether you consider yourself a martial artist/fighter or a martial gymnast.

[Toudiyama]

Ryanhall

In my country a lot of guys would just do karate for the matchs (point WKF type) and just train for those matches, in these type of matches a difficult kick will be more likely to score a full point(in a 3 point system ) than an easy technique. ( this is actually in the rulebook )
As for forms, we do not have a setup like in the states where the forms have nothing to do with fighting at all ( at least the old form had some relation) and because of this you won't see someone kicking a totally vertical roundhouse to show of flexibility
or things like that
You train according to the rules of the game, if the rules allow certain things then by all means use them if you can make them score
What's diificult for you to learn and perform might be a piece of cake for others

[EnterSandman]

Toudiyama:

That is the difference between a "sport" and a "street fight". The rules of engagement are competely different. If the goal of a fighter is to score points, a difficult spin kick to the head might be a risk worth taking to win the fight BASED ON POINTS.

But, in a real fight, a street fight... where the goal is either to kick your opponents ass or to keep your own ass from getting kicked in, high kicks, spin kicks or jump kicks can put you in a postion of unneccesary risk and harm.

In a street fight, why would you do any move, stance or tactic that has a lower percentage of success?

[Lizard]

"In a street fight, why would you do any move, stance or tactic that has a lower percentage of success?" because it looks good. Life isn't worth living if you don't take risks. You can pretend you are in the matrix. A person who can do a flying spin kick will say to themselves "I'm so glad I learned to do a flying spin kick" and they will be happy, more flexible and will be able to impress their friends. The fact that these moves are not useful in a real fight is not in dispute.

[Lizard]

One day I might make my own style. The aim will not be for self-defence. It will focus on moves that are unusual/difficult to perform. It will be fun, good excersise and will look good. The sparring will resemble kung-fu films/the matrix. Demonstrations will be spectacular, using special effects and a story line. Some ideas for rules: If someone pulls your arm you have to do a sommersault onto the floor like you've just been thrown, if someone does fancy hand movements in slow motion then you have to punch mega slow and allow them to block, if you get hit you have to pause while they finish you off, you can only win by using a flying/ducking/spinning move, if someone does a fireball move you have to act like you've been hit by an invisible fireball (unless you dodge it) Light contact most likely. I will be honest and tell people that it is not for self defence. Belts will be very colourful and interesting. I quote myself:It upsets me that belts are so boring. I would have multi-coloured, stripey belts with shiney stars and symbols. How can people feel satisfied with a one-colour belt? Better yet, allow students to customise thier own belts, each time they go up they are allowed to add more. Example, So your now sixth level, ok you get three colours, six symbols, three of which may be shiney.

[Guest]

What happened to Dinosaur Jitsu then?

Donkey Do more like.......

[Szczepankiewicz]

Half the time I just come to this board to read what Bri Thai writes....

[Lizard]

Has Bri Thai ever even said anything martial arts related? There never was a dinosaur variant of jiujitsu because at that age I had never heard of it. Dinosaur karate. It is long-forgotten now, an ancient art shrouded in the mists of time... I am the only true master. £99.99 per class plus £999.99 for belts plus £9.99 for belt cleaners plus £99999.99 or you don't get any bonus dino-chi. Dinomcdojos, the future of prehistoric martial arts is here.

[Guest]

Apparently both dinosaurs AND the founding master of this art have a brain the size of a peanut.

I shit you not.

OK, maye I do.

I have devised my own martial art also. It is called Dinosaur Shit. Imagine the power of a T Rex's dump!

Awesome!

[gazza]

Originally posted by Lizard
"In a street fight, why would you do any move, stance or tactic that has a lower percentage of success?" because it looks good. Life isn't worth living if you don't take risks. You can pretend you are in the matrix. A person who can do a flying spin kick will say to themselves "I'm so glad I learned to do a flying spin kick" and they will be happy, more flexible and will be able to impress their friends. The fact that these moves are not useful in a real fight is not in dispute.

Another way of looking at it is why would you not want to have the versatility to strike your opponent in any area with any part of your body?

Just from a quick glance around thse forums, a lot of people seem to be under the impression that all it takes is a quick kick to the leg to end a fight. In principle yes, however take that road with an experienced Thai fighter and see how far you get. Do people really want to cripple everyone who challenges them. Just because some guys being a drunk idiot doesn't mean you have the right to put the guy in a wheelchair.

The way I look at it you need to always keep your options open when confronted. Against a thai fighter (unless you are also a thai fighter) low kicks are a waste of time. Likewise you shouldn't try to match straight punching with a boxer as thes guys can generally take a punch, which can't be said for large portions of the MA community.

Kicks like an Axe kick are not just fancy moves with no purpose. If you have the technique, speed and timing, it's a good way to end a fight with one move without killing or knocking someone out. There really aren't too many people who want to continue fighting with a broken collar bone. The essence of these techniques is not necessarily if they will land but how they flow into your next series of movements. Don't put yourself into a position where you are an easy target.

[ryanhall]

The essence of these techniques is not necessarily if they will land but how they flow into your next series of movements

Everything you do should be to end the engagement now, not later.

Don't put yourself into a position where you are an easy target.

Then what exactly does sticking your leg up over your head while exposing your groin and disrupting your balance do? Make you a more difficult target?

There really aren't too many people who want to continue fighting with a broken collar bone.

If a broken jaw or arm won't stop someone from fighting, a collar bone fracture won't even make them flinch.

Another way of looking at it is why would you not want to have the versatility to strike your opponent in any area with any part of your body

Because kicking to the head is unnecessarily risky and has a very low benefit to danger ratio. You don't need to be able to hit someone in the eye with your toe. How can you praise boxing and still advocate flashy technique?

[gazza]

Originally posted by ryanhall



Because kicking to the head is unnecessarily risky and has a very low benefit to danger ratio. You don't need to be able to hit someone in the eye with your toe. How can you praise boxing and still advocate flashy technique?

Here's surprise, take slabs of text out of context. My point was you need to adjust your style to the style, size and ability of the person you are fighting. Certain attacks wont work on certain people effectively.

I don't believe in running around throwing reverse turning kicks and jumps etc at a regular basis. However you need to be able to improvise. Sometimes taking a risk with a flashy move will surprise an opponent. It also keeps them guessing.

Low kicks and straight punching should be the cornerstone but this isn't always going to work. If you don't have the versatility then once they've figured that out you're easy meat. Don't rely on flashy moves but don't rule them out either.

[Disciple]

I can think of two reasons why it is not best to attempt flashy techniques in a real fight.

1. Not everyone can or will ever be able to pull them off effectively. This depends a lot on your athletic ability, quickness, speed, flexibility, etc. For example, as an analogy, how many NBA two guards can pull off half the moves a Kobe Bryant or a Tracy McGrady execute on a nightly basis.

2. In a real fight you may not know what your opponent can do, and therefore you must assume the worst. A cool kick that you may be able to execute in nightly sparring matches may miss completely against a street fighter who may be incredibly strong, fast, tough, unorthodox and whom you know nothing about. In a point sparring match, there is room for error. The referee periodically stops the match. In a street fight, if you miss a high kick and get taken down, no one is going to stop the fight while you're getting your head slammed against the sidewalk.

Don't get me wrong, I am totally for martial artists working to expand their abilities and repetoire of techniques. To me, however, using a flashy technique in the street poses too high a risk when the consequences may be serious injury or death.