unusual techniques

[ryanhall]

I hate discussing self-defense. No, I hate discussing it when people have a very skewed idea of what it entails.

If you don't have the versatility then once they've figured that out you're easy meat.

Figure you out? Have you ever been in a fight outside of the dojo or the halls of high school? It would seem not. There is no playing around. Here's how it goes: Bam, bam, bam, done. You have to make sure you're the one doing the 'bam' part. He who hits first holds all the cards.

Here's surprise, take slabs of text out of context

Out of context? Then what exactly were you getting at?

Sometimes taking a risk with a flashy move will surprise an opponent

More often it will result in you eating a piece of the floor and a boot after that. Do you think you will be capalbe of throwing a high hook kick while wearing boots, jeans, and standing in a crowded room? I hope not.

[gazza]

Yes I've ben in fights, both competition and on the street. So you don't belive you can 'figure' someone out. I guess that's where our MA philosophies differ. MA is as much brains as it is brawn. If you don't understand this then i do not know what you have been studying. Wring smarts if you like are a ornerstone of every fighting style. Whether that be asian martial arts or traditional boxing.

Your last paragraph is bordering on ridiculous. Yes in a crowded pub wearing tight jeans, boots, a backpack. 'll also do a backflip off the wall and swing from the chandalier. Horses for courses, stop treating me like a fool.

[ryanhall]

Smarts has nothing to do with figuring people out--unless you've been fighting rogue Kung Fu students in epic battles at dawn. Is that what you mean by experience? Brains come in before the altercation. If you think you'll be level-headed and clear-thinking when confronted by someone who wants to and is capable of hurting you, think again. But expericence would have already taught you that, right?

[gazza]

At dawn you say, i have to admit that brought a chuckle

Yes experience has taught me several things, one being that the guy with a level head will have more chance of adapting to the changing situation around him.
I can't believe you are structuring an argument arund anger and frustration as opposed to calm thought. If you are incapable of calm-though when confronted perhaps that is something you should work on. you might be surprised what you are capable of.

[ryanhall]

Where did I say anger? I said aggressiveness. Calm thought is nice (I happen to like it a whole lot), but you will NOT be calm when adrenaline is coursing through your veins at a mile a minute. Your knowledge comes into setting people up, recognizing set-ups, maneuvering things (you name it, it falls under this category) to your advantage, and picking a tool to use. When the fists are flying, you can not expect to be cool and collected.

I direct you to thses sites. If these guys don't preach it, it's probably no good for self-defense--I kid you not. I hope you enjoy:

https://www.sammyfranco.com

https://www.senshido.com

https://www.tonyblauer.com

https://www.rmcat.com

https://www.gutterfighting.org

https://www.selfdefenseforums.com

https://www.geoffthompson.com

I'll throw this one in for Kingston's benefit:

https://www.russianmartialart.com

[gazza]

I diagree again. Calm thought come easy to me. Just because your heart is beating and adrenaline is pumping doesn't mean you cannot be calm. The body is straining and rearing to go, but you hold yourself back until the timing is right, exploding with aggression, landing all or most of your blows and finishing the fight then and there. It's controlled aggression, not an all out release at the first given opportunity.

I'm unsure of yor age or level of experience, perhaps when you reach my age you wil be capable of original thought instead of requiring those of others to backup your opinions.

Enough is enough. Enjoy your websites and keep on swinging.

[ryanhall]

It's controlled aggression, not an all out release at the first given opportunity

I don't recall saying anything about 'all-out release at the first opportunity.' Frankly, your putting words in my mouth is tiresome.

I'm unsure of yor age or level of experience, perhaps when you reach my age you wil be capable of original thought instead of requiring those of others to backup your opinions.

I see...ambiguous reference to possible age and experience that you may or may not possess. I don't require anyone to back up my comments. If posting links to sites of the foremost teachers of 'reality' based self defense is construed as needing someone to back me up, then there's nothing that can be said for you. Lack original thought...I ought to ban you. You have spent this entire discussion on two separate threads deigning not to respond to my posts in favor of whining and preaching to me about the wonders of original thought and grace under fire. When I reach your experience level....

[gazza]

Your basic argument is along the lines of there is no thinking in a confrontation. He who is the most aggressive and makes the first move will undoubtedly win. You also argued that you are incapable of keeping calm when under threat.

Before knocking this back, read your previous posts. If this is not what you meant it is irrelevant because that is what you said.

Your inability for calmness when under pressure is what eluded me to a lack of experience. This may not be the case but I will not make any apologies for your own inability to express yourself.

A calm mind is the the soul of the art i study and teach. Calculated risk taking and adaptability. I have tried to have a reasonable discussion with you but your inability to read between the lines is frustrating. It was you who jumped on my posts in both threads so please do not turn things around.

If banning me will make you feel better, or make you feel that you have won some kind of battle then please go ahead as I have more important things to worry about. Best of luck with wherever it is you are going.

[ryanhall]

Evidently you are unaware that people do not get banned here. It was a joke. Lighten up.

Your basic argument is along the lines of there is no thinking in a confrontation. He who is the most aggressive and makes the first move will undoubtedly win. You also argued that you are incapable of keeping calm when under threat

There must be something wrong with your brain. That is the only explanation for your lack of reading ability. He who hits first has a huge advantage. Confrontations don't last long enough for protracted thought, and when you are in fight or flight mode, parts of your brain come to the forefront while others recede. This impedes the kind of thought you seem refer to (maybe I'm not reading between the lines...--it's not like you would be responsible for making others understand your point through a well-thought out and well-written argument rather than what you have put forward). The 'if he does A I do B' nonsense doesn't work. Period.

Also, there is a major difference between remaining completely calm and having the ability to think ultra clearly.

You said:
1) "Another way of looking at it is why would you not want to have the versatility to strike your opponent in any area with any part of your body?"
2) "Sometimes taking a risk with a flashy move will surprise an opponent"
3) "I can't believe you are structuring an argument arund anger and frustration as opposed to calm thought. If you are incapable of calm-though when confronted perhaps that is something you should work on"
4) "It's controlled aggression, not an all out release at the first given opportunity"

I said:
1) "Because kicking to the head is unnecessarily risky and has a very low benefit to danger ratio. You don't need to be able to hit someone in the eye with your toe. How can you praise boxing and still advocate flashy technique?"
2) "More often it will result in you eating a piece of the floor and a boot after that"
3) "Where did I say anger? I said aggressiveness. Calm thought is nice (I happen to like it a whole lot), but you will NOT be calm when adrenaline is coursing through your veins at a mile a minute. Your knowledge comes into setting people up, recognizing set-ups, maneuvering things (you name it, it falls under this category) to your advantage, and picking a tool to use. When the fists are flying, you can not expect to be cool and collected."
4) "I don't recall saying anything about 'all-out release at the first opportunity.' Frankly, your putting words in my mouth is tiresome."

Your inability for calmness when under pressure is what eluded [sic] me to a lack of experience

Your nonsense about total calm in the face of high stress situations is what tipped me off to yours. You lie if you tell me that you are able to think as clearly in a life-threatening situation as you do now. Make-believe time is over. Do you even have the smallest understanding of emotional inertia, adrenal response, fight or flight, etc.? I am sure that you do not. But your style focuses on staying completely calm, so therefore you will, right? I'll bet you advocate myriad techniques as well so that you will be able to deal with anyone and anything that comes your way--after holding back to observe his style and weaknesses, of course.

How about explainging yourself? Or are your age, experience, and 'style' too mysterious and secret to mention in anything other than vague generalization?

Last but not least:

I'm unsure of yor age or level of experience, perhaps when you reach my age you wil be capable of original thought instead of requiring those of others to backup your opinions

This is akin to you becoming beligerant with me for pointing you in the direction of Albert Einstein's work in a discussion about Physics. These people are the best out there, and they all seem to agree with one another to a greater or lesser degree. If you don't see anything of value, then you might want to consider that something's not quite right with what you're doing. Perhaps you should read Blauer's site. It's full of thinking and psychological stuff that would interest you (as well as me). I think you'll find that you don't really have a handle on this one. Maybe you'll learn something, son.

[Kingston]

There are ways to stay calm in a confrontation. It is always better if your able to be more relaxed. Alot of it has to do with breathing. BUT, if your style requires to much concentration, or any amount of thought while going throw techniques you could have trouble if you get to exited. Most people aren't "profesional" enough to stay completly calm. Though i have complete confidence that some people can get throw high stress situations without tensing up.

the thing about "real life" is that fancy techniques dont work the same as they do in practice. Its ugly looking. All you have to do is tell your partner "ok tackle me at full speed" or any other type of attack you want. You mite fall over, you mite stay up, your partner mite end up still holding on to you, he mite let go. There is nothing that works the same way everytime, training techniques the same way everytime is not reality, its learning how to dance.

The reason you cant get off a high kick is simple, you dont have time. well you have the "time" to make the kick, but because no ones first reaction to a punch flying at their face, or a diving tackle is to put there leg over their head, you wont be able to pull it off. One thing you can always do is move.

Fancy techniques wont confuse anyone. What will confuse them is when they try and punch but are stoped because you hit them first!

even though fancy techniques are hard to even get off, once you do there is no garuntee that all that effort will work for your benefit, you miss, you dont get a solid hit, your off balace, he hits you AS you conect with the kick.......

Sport fighting is another deal. you have time to think, study, warmup, test. In a real fight all you can do is react, and it wont look all nice and fancy either.

I do want to make one other point though. people should not be afraid to try certain things, IF you CAN pull something off by all means do it. BUT dont make it some kind of street strategy. "they usualy come in like this, so ill do technique A i learned, then he's gunna do this, so i'll then go to technique B....if those dont work i'll fall back on technique C" AINT GUNNA HAPPEN! techniques can look unusual, thats fine, as long as they work!

[Kingston]

that last point i was talking about.........

gazza said that an axe kick would be a good way to end a fight without killing or knocking out the oponent because it can break the colar bone.

....first off you have to assume you can pull off an axe kick, second you have to assume that you make contact in the right place, third you have to assume that his colar bone will break, fourth you have to assume its only one oponent, fifth you have to assume that hes not tough enough to continue.

I could probaly go on.........do you now realize how stupid that coment was? when you ASSUME you make an ass(of)u(and)me.

if you happen to have crappy training and throw an axe kick thats fine......but it is NOT a good way to end a fight. Its like saying "jumpkicks are a good way to end a fight" or "groin shots are great to end a fight, no one wants to fight after getting hit in the groin!" also any type of stance that is not "natural" and relaxed only limits you....

i could go on and on about other things.....but i wont. You dont always have to agree with Ryan. There are many ways to skin a cat, but you have to take into account reality.

[ryanhall]

Well said, Kingston.