using probability:hit first

[Lizard]

Using what I know of probability, I can say that it is a VERY good idea to hit first. Let's say that every time you try to hit someone you have a 50% chance of hitting them, if you hit them, then on your next hit you have a 75% chance of hitting. Sorry I couldn't attactch my tree diagram as a picture. It ended up as: Probability you hit twice is 0.375, probability you hit once is 0.375, probability that your opponent hits once is 0.25, probability that no-one hits is 0.25.

[eXcessiveForce]

I would think that if you hit them from behind while they were sleeping it would raise the connect percentage.

rule of thumb.

Only attack people from behind while they are sleeping.

[Tom Yum]

If you are referring to ring matches, then you definitely want to hit first. Rule of thumb is that you open the guy up with jabs (round kicks in MT) and once they wear at him you scoop into him with combos to the body and head.

Outisde of the ring, their are legal implications for hitting first. I don't know precisely what they are but the only way you can strike first is if your life is in danger. I guess if the guy is bigger than you and says he's gonna hurt you, that might hold up.

[Lizard]

Perhaps a vital part of MA training for self-defence should be escaping the police or learning to lie convincingly.

[Guest]

Hit first Hit fast Hit hard Hit last.

And you don't need to lie if you hit him because you were put in real danger.

[ryanhall]

Hitting first gives you a monstrous advantage. It can't be stressed enough. How else can you realistically expect to defeat a much larger or more skilled (or both) adversary that would hand you your ass in a straight out fight? You can't. Learning how to strike pre-emptively is an art unto itself.

About the cops:
1) Bri is right about not needing to lie if you were justified in striking first. Just make sure you were right and that you can prove it.
2) Don't be there when they arrive if you don't have to.
3) Do NOT make any kind of statement to them until you consult an attorney. The Miranda rights are not a joke.
4) If you have to speak to them, cooperate and be polite. Call them sir or ma'am. Do not use any kind of angry language that would paint you in a bad light when discribing what happened (racial slurs, profanity, etc.). You'll probably be excited/amped up, but unless you want to spend the night in a cell, keep your cool.

If you have qualms about hitting first, think about this:
1) Doing it gives you a huge advantage. You remain in control of the situation and your health.
2) If you don't do it, the other guy will, giving him a huge advantage over you, and control over what happens to you. Do you want to risk that?
3) You are not causing the assault, you are stopping it before it harms you.
4) "If you wait for absolute confrimation of an assult, it will usually come in the form of injury to you." --Kelly McCann
5) The longer a fight/assault lasts, the higher the probablity of serious injury or death coming to you. You are finishing things as quickly as possible.
6) For that Gazza guy: you can't be certain that you will be able to block/parry/slip/avoid/whatever the other guy(s)'s first strike, so waiting to counter is very unsafe.

[Tom Yum]

Can you hit first if its an ego issue??

I have had something like this happen. When everybody left for lunch, the office bully came to my desk (foaming at the mouth) about some silly issue that I have absolutely no control over and says "IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN, I'M GONNA HIT YOU IN THE FACE!!"

Someone tell me, would I have the right to stand up and hit first? The guy is grossly overweight and tires after one flight of stairs.

[Roland]

Originally posted by Tom Yum
Can you hit first if its an ego issue??

I have had something like this happen. When everybody left for lunch, the office bully came to my desk (foaming at the mouth) about some silly issue that I have absolutely no control over and says "IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN, I'M GONNA HIT YOU IN THE FACE!!"

Someone tell me, would I have the right to stand up and hit first? The guy is grossly overweight and tires after one flight of stairs.

Well, since it's obvious that the guy is not about to hit you then, you wouldn't have the right to stand up and hit first.

If, however, "this happens again" and he comes barreling into your office with a look of sociopathic glee on his face, I think you might be within your rights to punch him in the nose.

But if he tires that easy, maybe you should just lead him on a merry chase around the office and induce a heart attack?

[Lizard]

I think you should have hit him. It will make you feel better, make anyone else he has been bullying feel better, give you a chance to brush up on your skills, maybe even teach him a lesson. He threatened you with violence and, more importantly HE DESERVED IT.

[Tom Yum]

I can tell you what I would have liked to have done, but I think there is a file on him in HR. Its a shame, because when I first met him he seemed so professional.

[ryanhall]

**I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. I do not suggest that you DO anything.**

You could have been charged with battery if you had hit him there. You made the right choice not to. A couple of times, I've hit people because they deserved it (not in a situation like yours), but I was fortunate enough that there were no repercussions. I'll bet that violence in the workplace isn't looked well upon, so you definitely made the correct decision. Some people just suck and you have to deal with them.

If he comes back threatening you again, you may have justification. Make sure that you have somebody who can back up your claim of the co-worker's threat toward you. You'll have to judge the situation for yourself, as you can't convey the entire problem in words. If you honestly feel threatened and he bothers you again, you might want to actively deal with the situation. If you can establish a pattern of his potentially-violent behavior and attempts at intimidation, then you should have everything you need. Especially if your other co-workers feel the same way and they'll say it. This is a touchy issue, as it's someone you know and work with. Be careful with what you decide to do.

"Some people are alive simply because it's illegal to kill them."

[Tom Yum]

Thanks.

I do not intend to hit anyone unless there is no doubt that I am in danger. This guy has temper-blood pressure issues that will work themselves out somehow. Allthough there were things I would have liked to have done, I excercised good control and patience.

[Guest]

I know that this could sound naive, but aren't there anti bullying procedures in the organisation where you work? Report him. I know it feels a bit "sissy", but the organisation then HAS to do something, and it will all be written down. You say there is already a file on him. Make it a bit thicker. Go to town on how threatened you felt and how you feared real personal injury. The manager will wet his/her pants, because the organisation will have a duty of care to you. If you were injured after making a report like this then you could sue them forevermore.........SDo you have a Union? Complain to them.

And if it does ever come to blows you have evidence of previous behaviour that caused you to fear for your safety.

People shy away form using these procedures. They feel like they will portrayed as some kind of snitch. Who gives a shit what they think. Fight back on paper prior to fighting back with your fists.

I've always hated bullies at work. Now I'm at a rank able to do somethig about it I go out of my way to give them shit. They don't like it!

[Tom Yum]

Thanks for the advice.

I've decided to go back to school for more education, especially considering the state of our economy. Living in Texas and working in certain industries (like oil & gas) attracts certain personalities that are less than desirable to work with (or for).

I've been accepted and am looking for a major that will allow me to have more mobility when it comes to job opportunities. I'm considering architecture or life sciences (biochemistry).

[da_mill]

from a self defense point of view, what would be good attacks to throw? obiovulsy the situation differs, i was just thinking if they werent in very close range and you could only reach them with a straight punch, would it really be worth hitting them first? common sense would say you could move in whilst hitting, perhaps (as an example) jab and cross, which you could use to move inside and close the range. theres no point in overreaching. however if you were both standing off then a jab wouldnt exactly knock the other person out lol.

But in all the pub fights etc ive witnessed (thankfully havent been in many) where the range is more than right in close, you get the old "overhand maul swinging" type jobbie where one guy or maybe even both just fly in swinging. obvioulsy you cant "prepare" if its just a random altercation, but what if you just waited for the lunge you could land shots of your own. (im not suggesting this im just mearly opening hte discussion)

perhaps not a random bar fight, more the kind that seems to happen in groups where at the end one person or group turns around to wakl back to the other group and a fight starts.