Does BJJ become ineffective?

[JaredExtreme]

I have't done any BJJ in about a year and a half now, initially it was due to health reasons. I always planned on going back in the near future, but now I don't think I will. Here's why:

I did BJJ for a year straight. The instructor was cool, I enjoyed myself, and gained a lot of knowledge. I learned all the essentials like takedowns, attacks from the guard, escapes, counters etc. But after the first eight months as most of you know, techniques start becoming more complicated (this is true in most MA'S) and more geared towards tournament competition. So at this point I had jaw surgery and had to quit all sports for 6 months.

So now I've had a chance to step back and examine the whole picture. My personal philosophy I have regarding fighting/self-defence is that "If it's complicated, it sucks". When one sees BJJ techniques used successfully in PRIDE/UFC, it's usually the simple ones such as armbars, kimuras, and triangle/guillotine chokes. It is equally important to know how to counter these moves. But once these basic techniques are learned, from a self-defence standpoint, aren't the complicated moves a waste of time? Who cares about learning 7 different collar chokes when the first 2 are the most effective? Why waste time on complicated moves such as the omo plata?

Yes, if someone wants to become a great tournament gi fighter, then I would agree that the complicated/advanced moves are necessary. But from a practical self-defence view, I think mastery of the basic fundamentals of BJJ is enough, and anything more is unnecessary.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

From a certain perspective, you're right. However, in order to get good at these basics requires years of dedicated rolling in my opinion.... You don't have to be a part of a BJJ school to roll.......but...... you're going to be rolling with the best if you are.

Gaining mat time is the most important thing. You might be able to learn the basics in a year's time......but imagine if you continued to solidify those basics for 10 years?

Keep rolling.

Ryu

[Azzazzin]

Exactly

Something I just realized (since I'm still young) is that when someone says practice makes PERFECT, they really mean it.

Yes, you could learn everything there is to know about an art in one year, but it takes many years before it just clicks, and it's engraved in your brain...

I've chosen my art, and I am sticking with it. I suggest you research what you want, and stick with it. I have friends that have been in Ju-Jitsu for a few years now, and it's actually very very effective for streets. Maybe you have to find the right place to learn it?

[Szczepankiewicz]

when someone says practice makes PERFECT, they really mean it.

And they're really wrong.

you're going to be rolling with the best if you are.

I would agree with Ryu. As a base art BJJ is one of the best. If you trained your whole life in BJJ it would serve you well. However, when you start talking about Self Defense you need to branch out and do a little cross training. Train some stick, knife, gun, and adrenaline conditioning. There are people who are out there that can take your skills to the next level just by how they affect your mindset and approach.

With a solid foundation and continued training in BJJ you will be strong. But with extended studies with people who 'walk the walk' you can take it to the next level.

My advice is to stay active in your training. Whether it be BJJ or Judo or some other grappling art. It will keep you tuned up.

Spanky

[JaredExtreme]

Actually Szpnk, gun/stick/knife training is what I've been looking for. I looked through the phone book and seached online and the only palce in Seattle that offers anything remotely like this is a Krav Maga school which apparently operates only a few months of the year, and I have certainly heard the weaknesses of Krav Maga.

[Guest]

I think almost all arts suffer from "diminishing returns". Like Ryu says, you will probably be better in 10 years than after 1 year. But you will not be 10 times better. I'm not saying don't continue to train. I am saying focus on your goals when you train. If it is to excel in competition, then fine. But if it is for self defence, watch out.

Most arts get to a point (fairly quickly) where you become expert at fighting people from the same art. But the downside is that this can often be at the expense of fighting Mr Bad Guy.

For example, pulling guard and then attemting to gain that arm bar is great, unless your opponent is biting your bollocks and then putting his fingers in your eyes.

In other positions you coud be controlling him, and then elbowing his teeth in. But you're training may make you sacrifice your mount in order to grab that all important arm bar again. Great, unless you miss it.....

It certainly isn't just BJJ practitioners that could suffer. Boxers who try to punch when the opponent is wide open for kicks for example. The list is endless.

So, paradoxically, trainng in an art can make you ineffective in the street if you're not careful. It can work against you, unless you keep self defence in mind and, at least some of the time, adapt your strategies.

[DRLashambe]

This is absolutely true. After you learn the basic moves, you begin to learn escapes, counters, etc that are designed for "duelling" with other skilled practicioners of that art and really don't reflect fighting untrained people or fighters from other arts.

[doubleouch]

Matt Thornton has it right. He says that the advanced level of any art is simply the basics done with better timing precision, speed etc. That's what we concentrate on at the SBG.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Jared,

send me an email detailing what you are looking for. I might be able to help you out.

Spanky

[Mr. Miyagi]

Yeah, it's true that simpler is better. Most good fighters use only a couple of basic takedowns, guard passes, etc. But continued training allows you to see the ins and outs of using your preferred techniques...timing, when to try it, when to switch, what not to do against certain opponents, etc. The idea of continuing to learn techniques is that you may have an affinity for some of them and add them, but you don't have to. If not, at least you're aware of them in case an opponent uses it against you.
But isn't this true with every art? Why you only say BJJ?

[Thai Bri]

I, for one, didn't. I said that "any art suffers from diminsihing returns".

BJJ is worth singling out, though, as people still believe it is the ultimate. It isn't. No one style is.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Wow you're pretty smart for only having a few posts....

[Ice Phoenix]

Don't quit BJJ JaredExtreme, you'll regret it! ALL arts suffer diminishing returns, but that doesn't make them ineffective!!!

Originally posted by Thai Bri
BJJ is worth singling out, though, as people still believe it is the ultimate. It isn't. No one style is.

Who the hell are you, and who said BJJ is the ultimate? I've found more TMA people believe their art is the ultimate than BJJ people. BJJ & MMA type people are usually very objective, whereas TMA people usually live in fairy land.

[Thai Bri]

I am me, and I have seen people say BJJ is the Ultimate many times. We all have.

BJJ and MMA are people are not "usually" anything, let alone objective. They are all different people who happen to study a particular art.

Personally I find it sad when people invest so much of their identity into a martial art. Theres a whole world out there, dumbo. Martial Arts are only a tiny part of it. Get a life.

[CHOKE UK]

Does bjja become ineffective,
the answer is yes.
But only when you fight Rita1203,
because apparently he will dance on your head and crack your skull !

Does he speak from experience ?
No, of course not, dont be silly.
But he apparently read it in a book,
probably the 3rd rate joke book that he gets his jibes from !