Iron Mike, Lewis and Tua

[Pit Dog]

Big Mouth (er, uh, Bird):
I have plenty of boxing experience. What you with your "new age" so-called boxing experience aren't understanding is CHARACTER. Not being content with getting a "technical" victory on points ... but striving to truly DEFEAT an opponent.

There is nothing wrong with a man sticking and moving, but at some point he should stop all of that and go for a true victory ... not make running his whole fight plan.

Lewis' strategy is cowardly against truly world class opposition. You say he's a killer? Sure he's got a killer instinct ... once he wobbles a bum and has him on queer street. Hell, so did Juan Mott.

But, like Juan Mott, when faced with a true challenge, Lewis is anything but a killer and instead becomes a safety first runner. All he does is try to steal rounds, not beat up a fighter.

Tell you what. Go watch the final rounds of Holmes x Norton ... or Ali x Frazier ... or Holyfield x Bowe ... Foreman x Lyle, etc., etc. to see some true heavyweight action between TWO men trying their damndest to knock each other out.

And then watch Lewis, acknowledge my point, and shaddap.




[Edited by Pit Dog on 11-12-2000 at 11:03 PM]

[rockinronnie]

Say what?

Gargoyle - who do you mean? Tyson actually coudn't beat either Tua or Lewis. You must be MAD!

When was the last time you paid attention to boxing? And in particular, the heavyweight division?

Tyson is THROUGH my son! It's called "FINISHED"!! Lewis would smack a world of hurtin' on Tysons cranium, and I'd bet Tua would do the same.

Tua was NOT Tua saturday night. Did you see him against Ibeabuchi? He was devastating. Fast, and through his punches in bunches. He was "off" on saturday - and apparantly, he had hurt his hand a couple of days prior to the Lewis fight.

I really don't care much for Lewis - but he sure can box. If it wasn't for Lewis, Tua would be the next HW champion of the world (or Ibeabuchi, if he ever gets his life turned around for the better).

Ronnie.

_________________________________
A straight arm's still a broken arm - Master JPF

[rockinronnie]

I just read through some of the other posts.....

PitDog - Tua's chin LESS than Tysons? NOT! Did you see how many he took on the button from Ibeabuchi, and just kept comin' for more? Didn't you hear Tua yelling at Ibeabuchi..."GIVE ME MORE SON, GIVE ME MORE"!! lol

And Tyson "FOLDED" twice against Holyfield (don't get me wrong, Holy is a hard puncher - and Lewis took what he had to give, but Tyson couldn't)

But I hear ya when ya say Tyson is a true fighter. And Lewis does jab & move...jab & move. He looks for the easiest way to win. Lewis knows he doesn't have the best chin - so he does what will win the fight. There are MANY fighters just like Lewis. I often say to myself; if Lewis would just BLOODY WELL FIGHT LIKE HE'S CAPABLE OF, HE WOULD TAKE THESE GUYS OUT VERY EARLY!! Instead, he fights just to get the win.

I really don't like him. He's arrogant, and he's a WOOS as a boxer.

Ronnie.

__________________________________
A straight arm's still a broken arm - Master JPF

[L3FTH00K]

Good points everyone but let me give my opinion about the fight. First off I agree Tua has a better chin than Tyson, BUT Tua has trouble against pure boxers. Yes he looked great against Ike Ibeabuchi but thats because Ike at times during their fight decided to "exchange" with Tua. Look I like David Tua but he does not know how to fight a boxer/mover like Lewis. For gosh sakes Hasim Rahman was giving Tua a boxing lesson!!!

I agree with the people in this forum that say Tyson would do better than Tua. But I also dissagree that Tyson would destroy Tua if they fought each other. Look the reason I think Tyson would do better against Lewis is because he has had more experience fighting boxers that stick and move. Even in Tyson's losses HE ALWAYS TESTED HIS OPPONENTS WILL. David Tua did not even land a punch to test Lewis anytime during the fight.

I would still give Lewis an edge against Tyson but I know he will land more meaningful punches against him.I would say this, if a prime Tyson fought Lewis he would chop his body down and eventually knock him out in round 9.

[EJ]

Tyson has been ducking Lewis for years... this will not change anytime soon.

Look for Holyfield vs. Tyson III to come before Lewis vs. Tyson.

[Tony10]

What are you talking about EJ?!! "Ducking Lewis"?

I will kwush Wennox Wewis. How dare he sthep into the wing with his pwimitive boxing skills and challenge me! I am an animal, a monsther that will kwikly destwoy him and wegain the title that was stholen fwom me by that Indiana jurwy.

I have Awwah on my side now and I am a man with the most considewable sthkill in the wing. I will stwike Lewis sthavagely until he stharts making girlwie sounds, woman sounds, after which I will force mysthelf upon him back at the hotel.

[Playa]

No, please!

Oh no not Holyfield again. Man, he's getting too old and slow. Last fight I see him in move slower than rerun of Walker, Texas Ranger...

[EJ]

Yo Tony:

You forgot the "eat his children" quote.

[rockinronnie]

LMFAO@Tony10!!!!

[BIG BIRD]

Bitch Dog,er Pit Dog. Lewis did anything but run. If popping a jab and taking a small step to either side is running then I run all the time when I shop. He totally dominated Tua. What else do you want? You should be pissed at Tua for not pressing the action more. He was content with eating jab after jab and never pressing the action. I know how great of a boxer you were and you probaly would have went after him being the warrior you are. If Lewis and other fighters had your heart boxing would be a much better and more exciting sport. I think you should open a boxing gym and train fighters. I am positive you would create many national champions with warrior spirit. You could start by posting your impressive credentials.

[Pit Dog]

Big Mouth/Tweety Bird (take your pick):
I didn't see the Tua fight, so I can't properly comment on it. My understanding is Tua basically quit and went through the motions by mid-fight ... every bit as much as Lewis refused to put it into overdrive and show the world what a true champion looks like as he takes over and puts away a mediocre challenger.

I did, however, see Lewis hold and stall against an elderly Holyfield and it was a disgrace, so I can only imagine he wasn't much different in his latest "showing."

My credentials have been stated here many a time, but I am sure they are nothing compared to your world ranking.

But, posing and mouth-flapping aside, you still don't get my point and probably never will. Either that, or your obvious youth and and false pride won't let you admit what I am saying. But if you want to go on believing that stalling and a safety-first, clock-watching style are what make for a Hall of Fame world champion then please continue in your beliefs ... and I will continue to laugh at them.

[BIG BIRD]

You are right about one thing Pit,your credentials do not match up with mine and never will. Please name a few world class fighters that you have been in the ring with? Who have you been trained by? You did not see the fight and have no right to comment on it. Yes my attitude does come from being young,but it also comes from the fact that I am one of the few forum members who has been in the ring and has a Masters degree in "The Sweet Science". I hear you criticizing Lewis for holding onto Holyfield inside. Why arent you giving that same criticism to ALi for any or all of his fights?

[Pit Dog]

Hello Tweety:

I've been in the ring with Lalo and Rico Velasquez (Lalo faced former world champion Rene Arredondo). I've been in the ring with Ralph "Showtime" Guttierez (who lost a close one to Olympic Gold Medalast Steve McCrory, and won over, lost to, and drew in three showings against the world-rated Paul Banke). I've also been in the ring with Hector Lopez (ouch!). I have also been in the ring with perrenial top 20 heavyweight contender Mike "The Bounty" Hunter (who took it easy on me, being a middleweight) ... to say nothing of the lesser pros I boxed with for over six years while I trained.

My trainer was Archie Grant, who was 85 (twelve years ago), and he had faced Henry Armstrong, Chalky Wright, and many TRUE world champions. My boxing training was probably before you had your first pubic hair, but I know WTF I am talking about.

What are your credentials?

Anyway, what makes Lewis different from Ali is HEART. CHIN. SKILL. GUTS. Things Ali had and Lewis doesn't.

See, on the one hand you're right. Ali held, danced, slipped, and slid away too ... BUT ... where you're dead wrong is there was always a point where Ali would MAKE A STAND and go mano-a-mano and look to take someone's head home with him. He would eventually stand his ground and fight for real, to win. I am talking about a prime Cassius Clay ... and hell many times even when older (Frazier, Foreman, etc.).

There was a HUGE difference in confidence, in class, in desire, between the two that should just jump right out at you and be self-evident. If it isn't, then I suggest you get some old Ali/Clay fights and grab yourself a cold one and REALLY WATCH the man fight ... and my guess is you won't have to ask "what the difference is" between the two again. You will see there is a very big difference.




[Edited by Pit Dog on 11-13-2000 at 09:16 PM]

[Gargoyle]

Jab

Pit:

You would laugh your FAO if you saw Lewis's jab.

Let me describe it.

After lumbering around against a shortee who was following like a dog sniffing for shit, Lewis would throw a right hand (his right foot, of course, off the ground. Good technique, huh).

Oh! The jab. Imagine your hands BELOW your beltline, then pushing a jab you're not sure you want to hit your opponent of push him away.

You'd laugh your head off if you saw Lewis's jab. It and he were pathetic.

[Ronin]

Gargoyle:

I think you and Pit should challenge Lennox Lewis.

I mean, with your "gameness", and encyclopedic knowledge of boxing, dog-fighting, and MMA, it should be a simple matter for either one of you to avoid his lumbering, pathetic jab, slip inside, and KO him with a jumping uppercut like the one Ryu uses in "Streetfighter 2".

Maybe you could even tag-team. That would be cool.