Kung-fu Anyone?

[chris davis 200]

If I'm going to learn forms though, I don't want to practice locking out punches - BAD HABIT!!!

WOW - Agreed mate!! Very very very bad habit - this is the reason why many mcdojo Karateka have elbow problems!

The proper way is to extend the arm to around 85% of its total extension, then the tendons come into play and they hold a huge amount of elastic /potential energy.

A good post Tom.

What should people look for in a good Chinese martial arts school?

I would say that if you find a school, check out the lineage of the style to that teacher, enquire into his experience, who did he train under etc.

This will sometimes be enough. I also like teeachers that have also had experience of tournement fighting, the full contact touriments in taiwan etc. Although there are many people out there that have 'it' n didnt participate in competition.

I think that you would know if the guy had skill after a few sessions. another key thing is to see whether his top students are also highly skilled. If they arnt then the chances are he isnt too good a teacher, and the chances of you becoming high level is deminished.

Tom Yum - if you PM me with your area i may be able to find some people in your area worth visiting. If only just to find out more about it.

Cheers
Chris

[Ripley]

I'd look for evidence of tournament/event fighting on a competitive basis and check out a lesson. If they don't let you watch a lesson, go elsewhere (OK, maybe give them some notice before you turn up though eh?).

Check that the instructor you see is going to be the one taking your class, or find out who will be!

Check out the senior students, do you want your abilities to be like theirs?

Check there's a balance of individuals and abilities in the class. Are they all ex-Rugby (or US American Football) players or OAPs taking it real easy?

Finally, check you don't need to lift a burning brazier of coals up with your forearms when you graduate. It really stings and leaves a nasty mark.

[Tom Yum]

You mean burning bras? Yeah, that one went out with the 60's. I think most would prefer bra-less, no?

For questions on burning bras, please address Spankster.

[Szczepankiewicz]

I am here.

[Thai Bri]

"The exit"....BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[brokenelbow]

Not you're grandpa's Kung Fu

Get up to date

to what's "kung fu".

[William]

De-ja-vu Chris, De-ja-vu.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?threadid=6121&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

William

[tsefreeflow]

This is (or the other post) is more of the same crap I hear from people who mix arts. These people cannot make it work so they blame the art and not themselves, when they are the failures not the art. Most of the time the student does not get it and cannot put it to use and sometimes its the instructor who has no clue. But I have fought boxers, kickers, MT people, and they cannot handle me, but also realize that I do not blame their art saying mine is better like some morons. I also realize that Wing Chun has inherent weaknesses and short comings. So I have 3 arts. Wing Chun (China and Hong Kong styles), Bai Mei (White Eyebrow) and Serrada Eskrima. With these three I can make up the weaknesses of one with the other. But, my training is in the complete systems and not like that of JKD people who only take a little and think it will work, when they do not perform it correctly. I have used only wing chun in a fight and it lasted only 3-5 seconds and he was done, so do not tell me that the art is useless when the practitioner in himself is the useless one.

"One is taught in accordance to one's fitness to learn"
The Blind Man

[Cadden]

I learn and practise Ving Tsun and it is very effective in a no rules competition. The Wong Shun Leung lineage teaches groundwork and grappling, and the art is a complete one. I don't feel the need to cross train, as I am confident that there are no holes in Ving Tsun that need filling. One can personalise their Ving Tsun as Bruce Lee did and create a sort of Jeet Kune Do, but that is not indicative of holes in Ving Tsun at all, because Ving Tsun is constantly evolving and in the later levels of experience becomes quite personalised, as no one person is the same. Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee's personal style of Ving Tsun, not a seperate art (uh-oh running off topic).

However, the principle of Ving Tsun is to incapacitate the opponent as quickly, as efficiently and as completely as possible: therefore there is a distinct lack of Aikido style holds and locks, as these serve the purpose of supression and not incapacitation.

Wong Shun Leung was constantly tweaking his Ving Tsun to make sure it was simple, direct and efficient. If something could be done in a simpler way, he would use it. If there was ever a chance to attack, he would attack and not stop until he had beaten his opponent.

Wong SiFu always disliked the mystical side of Chinese Kung Fu. He always stressed to "be the master of the art and not it's slave", pretty much don't fight a certain way because your told to, fight that way because you know it works. And evolve to the situation. Also, concerning animal styles, he often stressed that people are not Praying Mantis' or White Cranes of Monkeys, they are humans and should utilise themselves as such. He was adamant about dismissing the myths and mystical crap concerning Chinese Kung Fu and he expressed that in his Ving Tsun, which is in my opinion, the most effective real-fighting style, MMA or otherwise.

You will often find that MMA stylists will assume there are holes in a certain style simply because after some short training time they assume they know the arts weaknesses and strengths inside and out. This breeds some truly awful fighters who know alot of superficial and biased information, but cannot apply any of it with any real efficiency. They are a mishmash of contradictory ideas and techniques and it shows.

I am somewhat against MMA for a number of reasons, but this isn't the place to discuss that.

[tsefreeflow]

Good reply Cadden, but I disagree with you some on saying your Ving Chun has no holes or weaknesses, there is no way to completely banish all holes. And as you said it is constantly evolving which in itself states there are holes, its just that we might not be bound by them and realize once it is found to be a weakness it can be modified to strengthen it. I agree Wing chun is one of the most effective styles but remember Bai Mei was meant to exploit the inherent weaknesses of Wing Chun. They work the opposite. They are both at the top of my list and study both, but if I had to choose, Bai Mei would be number one.

[Tom Yum]

Can you explain to me the differences between wing tsun and bai mei? I've also heard the chay lay fut is a rival style to wingchun.

I am intrigued by the Chinese arts, the longevity of their practicioners, self-defense aspects, development of the practicioner and cultivation of mind/timing/thinking.

I practice muay thai for about 2 years now and notice that the Thais (like the Chinese) are extremely calm and cordial when they spar, even at full contact while nailing you with knees in the clinch - what I mean is that they don't posture like Western boxers and they put their money where their mouth is. They are really good at gauging your abilities and pushing you at your level to improve, so you are never get killed by a pro-fighter, but you take some good shots here and there to learn.

What intrigues me about Chinese systems is the additional development of the mind and longevity of practicioners as well as its realistic self defense.

I have taken a good look at White Crane Chin Na as practiced by Dr. Yang and Jeff Bolt and find it as effective as Jujitsu. I am also intrigued by Wing Tsun and Hsing Yi. I am very critical of whom I will learn under when it comes to the Chinese arts as I once sparred a Wing Tsun student with a couple of years experience versus mine (8 months Muay Thai at the time).

I was expecting to get the pulp beat out of me, but it was more of an equal exchange. What suprised me was that I could disengage from his traps (after getting nailed a few times) and still work angles and land body shots (shovel hooks). I was also extremely impressed at his lack of pressure but his unorthodox blocking and counter punching - he did not telegraph at all and his hands were quick. If you're not used to seeing something, you won't see it until it hits you.

I think what suprised him was my shin on shin conditioning, push kicks, constant head movement, feinting and keeping pressure while working angles. Keep in mind, this was my first time to spar a wing tsun stylist ever and we started at about 1/2 intensity and brough it up to about 3/4. I've got respect for the style, but would not consider this guy at the teacher level.

[platinum_angel]

is bai mei a new art. why don't i see their practitioners in the ufc, pride. is bai mei one of the greatest arts according the author named after a negro slang or what.

[Tom Yum]

You mean: W'sap G!

Remember, ring fighting/sports are not the same as street fighting/self-defense. Its not to say either areas have overlap, but you can't use many techniques from kino mutai, chin na in NHB/MMA.

Kino Mutai emphasizes biting - not just randomly, but strategically. Read Vunak's work. Chin Na involves a LOT of dirty fighting plus standard grappling manuevers. Every style of Chinese Martial Arts has its own Chin Na and its not the kind of stuff you want to do full contact against your training partner.

Would you purposely and quickly rake the eyes of your grappling partner who has you in a sidemount? Would you strike the exposed cartoid artery of someone in your guard? Hope not.

This is purely self-defense that you can practice quickly without 100% intent and isn't made for UFC.

I think NHB/MMA fighting has a lot of awesome self defense techniques that work in one on one situations, has brought attention to good conditioning in the martial arts and teaches you how to take heat both standing up and while grappling. But when it comes down to strictly self-defense MMA is limited.

What about weapon attacks, multiple opponents and suprise situations? The goal of MMA is to beat your opponent, but the goal of self-defense is to escape alive. You won't throw jabs, clinch and drive your opponent into the wall (leaving your back exposed) or initiate a ground fight in self-defense; you're going to attack, do enough damage to stun/incapacitate the attacker and RUN or draw your firearm.

[tsefreeflow]

Bravo Plat, way to show your ignorance!

[platinum_angel]

me very sorry master