TKD = tai kwon don't

[falcon3624]

Re: look

Originally posted by Andrew WA

Anyway TKD has effective moves for a stand up striking art. There are a lot of different kicks. There are a lot of upper body techniqus as well. Stop thinking about TKD guys only kicking really high. That is ignorant. TKD has a lot of devastating low kicks that can damage good as well as crushing elbows and knees. There are joint locks, preasure point manipulation and throws learned as well.

Sorry man, but sounds like you are describing combat Hapkido and not TKD. I know it's so easy to get them confused.

[falcon3624]

Re: look

Originally posted by Andrew WA

Yes if you train strictly in TKD you will not have good ground skills. But if you train only in grappeling you will have sucky stand up skills. Plus going down in a fight is not always the best thing to do. Its ignorant to think the ultimate way to fight is to wrestle with the guy. Thats stupid. Most of the time in real life you do not want to go down in a fight. Your not going to be walking on a clean mat. You might be on the pavement or on rough ground with rocks, you might be on sand and breath it while grappeling and it will choke you. You might be rolling around on broken glass and nails or garbage. Plus if there are 3 guys attacking you you can take all 3 on the ground and do technical crap on them. You can only take one down and do whatever while the other 2 guys stomp on your neck and face.

You do know that most BJJ incorporates boxing right??? I don't know about other schools but we have a MT instructor their that teaches for stand up, and most people I talk to that do BJJ incorporate a stand up style.

Like me there are alot of people that take BJJ for one reason. We are good stand up fighters but want to know grappling as a last resort. If I come into a situation where 3 guys are gonna jump me I am gonna try and talk my way out of it and if I can't I go to the ground as a last resort and when I do it's ground and pound time.

How long do you honestly think a TKD guy is gonna last against 3 people in a standing fight? Just about every TKD guy I have seen does not block good at all. Actually they suck.

[Andrew WA]

no I am describing TKD.

Do you not think that TKD people who want to fight good incorperate other styles also? Do you not think that TKD doesnt incorperate boxing as well? Geez.

The point is you totally dissed TKD as a whole and said there is nothing worthwhile at all about it and talked about all your "I will take him down" bullcrap. You cant ALWAYS take people down either!


Taekwondo is a good art for stand up striking and very effective and only someone who is in denial will say otherwise. Ju Jitsu is effective for ground fighting when you are taken down. Anyone who says it isnt is in denial as well.

Stop being so cocky. And start having more respect for other martial arts. Talking like the way you do is a good way to start an unnecesarry fight and you might get beat up by a group of angery Taekwondo people.
What would a BJJ guy do against 3 TKD fighters who were very fast and very talented at their art? Would you take them down? You could take maybe 1 down but then the other 2.

Now if a TKD guy took on 3 really awsome BJJ guys and the TKD was decent he could get beat down as well but at least he would be able to kick and punch in other directions and not be stupid enough to go on the ground.


Now if ANY 3 guys I did not know attacked me of course I would run. And if I HAD to fight them off I would run away and take them on one by one as they chased me and keep moving around and running through different places and hopefully they will split apart and you can throw kicks and punches and then start running again. I would NOT take one down and then run away again because that would slow me up.

if you train only grappeling then you are not going to be able to effectively fight more the one person. But there are situations you CAN grappel more then one person and win but that is so rare.

I am sure there are TKD guys who tran in the REAL art who can beat BJJ guys and there are BJJ guys who can beat those TKD guys as well.

I respect all arts and think every single martial art and fighting system has effective techniques that are worth something.

[falcon3624]

Re: look

Originally posted by Andrew WA

You need to stop being so cocky. You may have had bad experiences in TKD or other types of arts, but that doesnt mean you have to take it out on the art itself. Why not ake it out on the fake idiot instructors that are being pumped out in the thousands from mctkd. This is not REAL Taekwondo. So stop being so close minded.

I don't know if everyone has had bad experiences in TKD or not. For me it's just that I don't think the style is good whether it is the art or the sport. Like I have said many times before there is a guy down here by the name Master Lee who is a real deal guy from Korea. I have fought many of his guys on the street who were suppose to be really good and dismantled them easily. Now if TKD is so good how come I can take down those guys so easy? And I don't mean sparring I mean in a full contact fight just to see who was better.

[Andrew WA]

Becuase you are basing your opinion on one "master". If he sucks then go try another TKD. You cant just say "I know one guy who owns a school so that means his art sucks."

Plus a lot of times even Korean masters dont care about teaching as much as making money. So that must be why his students suck.

I have seen some pretty scarey TKD black belts. They do exist. Its really easy to tell who is good at their martial art and who sucks at it.

Also when people get old their bodies dont work the way they used to. Old masters cant kick like they used to. Its just the way life sucks. But the masters have all the knowledge to teach someone to be good. Maybe when the master was in his 20's he could fly around with kicks and break tons of bricks and kick total ass. But he is now old so he cant move that way anymore.

So what do you do just walk around and meet other martial artists from other arts and challenge them in street fights or something?

[falcon3624]

This master does not suck, he is suppose to be one of the best around and is suppose to produce the best TKD fighters around. When he came down he got a job at a local college teaching tennis. He later asked if he could teach TKD at the college as a class because he did not like accepting money for the classes. This guy is the real deal and he is pretty bad. Like I said though I just don't care for the art. When I think of martial arts I think of fighting and when I face some of the best guys in my area in a certain art and tear them apart then I don't think about running over there to join up.

I don't walk around and meet other martial artist and pick fights with them. Most of the time the TKD guys around here (especially the good ones) get swollen heads and think there art is superior because there are very few other arts in this area. Most of the time when I would get into a fight with one of these TKD badasses it was because they talked shit to me too much and I just had to see for myself. There was only one of them that actually impressed me with his skill in fighting but he also trained alot in MT as well and that played a very large part in his style.

[Tom Yum]

I respect all arts. I know that TKD teaches self-defense that is appropriate for the average joe vs. the average joe. Its not until you earn a higher rank that you can really fight impressively - and I stress the word "earn." Traditional martial arts are taught so that you build solid skill and confidence first and then you become a beginner again by learning how to fight against a resisting opponent. When I got my red belt in Hapkido, I had great throws and sweeps....until the brown and black belts resisted and countered in the advanced classes. So I was humbled, but eventually began to apply what I was learning from sparring.

I have seen some amazing, tough Korean TKD black belts. However I have seen many American black belts who were all show. Its the emphasis on money and overemphasis on fun that promote folks to BB who can barely throw a crescent kick above their navel and take 3 steps to execute a throw that should only take 1, ESPECIALLY at black belt level.

This is why people dog on TKD.

[spiderchoke]

I still find it really funny, that everytime one of you prints "TKD" , all I can think of is the definition that is now so popular and widely accepted:

So TKD now officially stands for Tae Kwon Do Not try this at home, you will probably get beaten with in an inch of your life by a guppy or a chihuahua, or a small girl about the age of 8 with a dress on, that is crying about her scraped knee.

As previously defined and accepted by Webster's.

(See Previous posts)

"Everyday spent training is one day closer to learning something."
...Spiderchoke

[Bjjexpertise@be]

And besides if some chinese guy comes and laughs at a MT boxer or a MMA for getting a belt in 12yrs. they are probably just going to pumel them.

Hey i am the chinese guy, and i found a way to takedown those friggin MT guys. So in other words, i win Not all the time though but i win a decent amount of time.

[Ghost]

The chances of you winning BJJexpertise are minimal, remember you dont even go to a class and how many fights have you won.

I hear Wing Chun is pretty good at the moment though

[Andrew WA]

Tom Yum is right. All of the greedy foolish instructors out there are ruining the name of Tae Kwon Do and that is the only reason people talk crap about it and I understand why they do it but its not right. They are only seeing the bad stuff. Pretty soon people claiming BJJ are going to ruin the name of that art and make it a joke. Just wait awhile.

And yeah Falcon I can see why you hate TKD fighers so much. The ones in your area sound like total egotistical morons. I am sorry you have such pricks in your area. I have met my share of so called Tae Kwon Do practitioners over the years who are exactly like that. People who try to start fights over idiotic things. Ive also met Karate guys like that too. But a lot of thai boxers are just as arrogant and it seems that BJJ guys are too. Its very anoying.

The only people we should talk crap about and be angery with are the fake instructors out to make quick cash by giving false security tied around their students waist in the form of a black belt. We should not talk crap about other arts and be ignorant.

[Grape_Ape]

Originally posted by Andrew WA
And yeah Falcon I can see why you hate TKD fighers so much. The ones in your area sound like total egotistical morons. I am sorry you have such pricks in your area.

Must be in the water.

[falcon3624]

I don't hate TKD fighters I just don't like the art. I mean I have seen the art and I just don't like it. Simple as that. I think there are too many flaws in the art itself.

I am not the kinda person in real life that is going to go around picking fights with guys just for the hell of it don't get me wrong or take everything I say on the forums to be the way that I am in real life. However I am the kind of person that when someone starts talking to me about martial arts in person I just sit back and see what they have to say and see how many stories I can get about this and that.

When it's all said and done though if someone comes up to me and is telling me they have the best art or they are from the best class around or they are champ of this or that I wanna see for myself.

[Lizard]

"Taekwondo is a good art for stand up striking and very effective and only someone who is in denial will say otherwise. Ju Jitsu is effective for ground fighting when you are taken down. Anyone who says it isnt is in denial as well. "

So if I say TKD is not effective, I'm in denial. You sound like a fanatic, and I don't trust religeous fanatics.

Humans learn quickly. Falcon fought with some TKD guys he heard were good and he beat them. His conclusion: TKD is crap.

"Becuase you are basing your opinion on one "master". If he sucks then go try another TKD. You cant just say "I know one guy who owns a school so that means his art sucks."

Basicly you're saying that falcon should keep beating up TKD guys until he loses so he can admit that it's not crap. Sorry but I just don't have the time to challange every TKD guy who ever lived, I'd rather just look at the style, think logicaly about the moves and principles used then come to my own conclusion. TKD isn't the best art for self defense, all martial arts are not equal, MOST TKD is very bad for self defense.

If you've found TKD that works then great but try not to sound too fanatical. It will just make you unpopular.

[falcon3624]

For real though Andrew like I said before I live in South Louisiana and there is alot TKD down here and it ranges from everything from the sport to the art. I have fought in alot of open tournaments where all kinds of styles are allowed and fought a whole lot of TKD guys on the street that were talking about how great TKD was (as Lizard said they were some fanatics). I mean when I went to BJJ I had been doing martial arts for most of my life and I was consistently getting my ass handed to me over and over again. Now that is what I consider effective. When I fought TKD guys I found that most of them were easy to time their movements and their striking. This in turn made it easy to attack them effectively and end the fight quick.

I remember one time I was in a bar and this local TKD BB (3rd degree) was smarting off to a guy that was a descent boxer. The boxer took it for a little while and didn't say anything because he figured if the guy was half as bad as he said then he wouldn't have a chance. Finally the boxer just got tired of his crap and told him to buzz off and the TKD guy didn't like that at all. To make a long story short the TKD "master" ended up leaving on a stretcher after only one punch and the boxer sat down at the table saying "what the hell, did he think he was Jean-Claude Van Damme?".

I am not basing what I have seen against "one master" I am basing it on a whole lot of different people that do TKD and are suppose to be really good at it. For the most part TKD as a whole has been over 90% corrupted by marketing and the rest is just flawed in it's roots.

The problem with a traditional art is like this. I think it was Helio Gracie that had spoken with a JJ master from Japan and told him that he had found a better way to do a certain choke. The JJ master took a look at the way he did it and said "well of course anyone is going to tell you that is better". So helio asked him why not change it if you can make it better and he simply replied "that's not the way it's done, we do it the way it was meant to be done in the begining". I much prefer an art that is always developing and changing for the better.