TKD = tai kwon don't

[Great Sage]

Andrew,

You sound like a guy who’s been at one dojang too long. I understand that you are very passionate about TKD because it is what you do... I’ve been down that road before.

However, you should know that some martial arts ARE more effective than others. For instance, all the techniques of TKD cannot compensate for the reflexes, punching power and mobility found in boxing. Nor does TKD kicking measure up to MT kicks, elbows and knees. And a TKD guy on the ground is like a chicken at sea.

If you’re not convinced, you should evaluate yourself through comparison. Go to a boxing gym and get in the ring with someone who’s been training as long as you have—that’s what I did and found out quickly that boxing is a toughman’s sport. Then test the waters further by doing Muay Thai, or pit your TKD skills against a BJJ White Belt.

I know that most apologists will argue that it won’t prove a thing, because it’s a matter of one perspective, but the hard truth is that the results are always damn near the same—the TKD guy loses.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not telling you to quit TKD or make any changes in your training if you’re comfortable with where your at. However, it’s very naive for you to assume that TKD is as legitimate as other martial arts that have been proven on a more professional level. A TKD tournament and BJJ tournament are light years apart...

[ahavat]

The problem with TKD in my eyes is that it varies a lot. I have trained it for many years, and sadly I have to agree, the common TKD-practitioner is not very competent when it comes to realistic fighting. The reason is in my eyes that the topics covered in training varies from school to school, and a large amount of instructors only teaches what is required to receive a new degree (MCDojangs), and produces students who are useless in real combat. However, to classify absolutely every tkd-practitioner as useless is somewhat drastic, I have trained with a large aspect of practitioners, ranging from idiots who think they are fighters only because they have a black belt to tie around their waist to fighters who received their training in TKD and have tested their skills against both boxers and kickboxers and won.

In my eyes the problem will be to find a competent (old school) instructor who emphasizes realism and fighting spirit in his training, and not someone who is only concerned with teaching the minimum requirements for a new degree.

But that still leaves ground fighting, which is very rarely covered in a TKD gym, I know of someone who does it, but that is because the instructor cross trains in BJJ.

[falcon3624]

I think the whole TKD black belt is pretty funny considering that in most TKD schools the black belts have about as much meaning as my brown belt from Wal-Mart.

Bottom line is belts don't mean sh@t. If I am not mistaken back in the old school martial arts there was only one color belt.......white!!! I know some of the older Japanese martial arts have 3 colors white, brown, and black. The more you trained the dirtier your belt got so they knew you were more skilled. After many many years of training the belt eventually became black and this was supposidly the ultimate level for a martial artist.

The Koreans were the first to use the practice of magic marker to speed up the process to get a black belt.

[Tom Yum]

Some people join martial arts clubs as a hobby or excercise and to learn a little self-defense. So they join TKD, karate or judo. They learn to throw kicks, punches and sweeps which is probably better than no training at all.

Others join jujitsu, JKD, boxing, phillipino arts or muay thai to learn how to fight and keep themselves in top shape.

Yet others take silat, wing chun, hapkido etc because they want both a traditional martial art with strong fighting techniques.

If you're looking for a little hobby to do on the side and general fitness, then join TKD. Since this is a site that emphasizes fighting arts, you're going to get some flames. Personally, I think some TKD can be good self-defense, but when the guy in your office struts around because he can throw a head level hook kick and got his black belt, he's asking for a wake up call.

[falcon3624]

And don't you love the look on their face when they awaken from that dream. LOL. It's almost like the look a new born baby has when they open their eyes for the first time. Waking up to a whole new world and there are so many posibilities.

[Tom Yum]

They wonder why you walk around with a slight limp one day and then try to tell you that TKD conditions your legs...hehe

[falcon3624]

Yea, TKD really conditions your legs. I know of a few guys that came to our class to try some BJJ and MT and were talking all kinds of smack about how well conditioned their legs were. Well, they found out that they are not as well conditioned as a MT fighters legs. Most of them would give our "special" bag about 3 or 4 kicks and then say "shit man, that things hard, did you put bricks in there?"

[Andrew WA]

Falcon a 3rd degree is not a master. 5th degree is. And a lot of 3rd degrees I have seen are not that great either.

Anyway that is cool if you are all about BJJ. Its good you have found stuff that works. I am not trying to make you join a TKD school or anything. I am just kind of anoyed when people make fun of something that I love and totally mock it and disgrace it. I never do that to any martial art. Or anyone training in another art. I dont think all arts are totally equal. I just think that its to hard to say which art is the ultimate art.

After class me and another kid spar with no rules. I have watched a couple UFC videos and saw Hoyce Gracie do some cool stuff. So I copied it on the kid and it really did work. But there are a lot of other stuff that I learn in TKD that works good too.
Anyway if you want to grappel the best then BJJ is probbaly one of the best arts for that. But if you want to stand up and fight then TKD is a decent art for that.

[Andrew WA]

I have not trained at the same dojang all my life. I have been to others.

You guys keep looking at the wrong thing. I htink its the person who makes a good fighter. If you look at a lot of dorks in TKD who think they are so baddass you are looking at the wrong people. Try looking at the very few who relly train hard with all of their hearts and dont just go to class to train. You know people who are serious do condition their legs well in TKD. I never spar with gear on ever anymore and the black belts kick pretty hard at each other and we dont have arm guards either and so we get our arms and legs pretty bruised up and we get stronger when it heals. I also kick wood and other things and punch brick or stone walls to condition my fists as well. A lot of TKD people lift weights too and get stronger.
Just because most kids join TKD because their parents bought the whole "Your kid will do good in school" crud, doesnt mean that the serious TKD people are no good.

I know I dont know everything about fighting and I always want to learn more. wouldnt mind cross training in other arts as well. I admire Jiu Jitsu.

TKD punches arnt just straight punches you hold out. That is practice and excersize. TKD punches can be exactly like a boxers punch. We have the same techniques plus a lot more. Infact whenever I spar I seem to use those moves more then the other ones becuase they are effective. Ive also found out going in close and using knees and elbows is very smart to do.

[Lizard]

You kick wood and punch brick walls.

Knees, elbows and boxing punches. Doesn't sound like any kind of TKD I've ever heard of.

Trouble is if you take out all the karate blocks and fancy kicks and add in a load of MT strikes and BJJ groundfighting you end up with somthing that is no longer TKD.

[david42018]

I dont think TKD is very effective in real life situations, I mean they would have a better than average chance then a normal person would, but lets face it, unless you are highly skilled, quick and strong and really know what ur doing are u going to be able to win in a real fight, is it just an art or is it self defense? I think its just an art. My friend became a 2nd degree black belt when he was 14 and won tournament after tournament. He went to Jamaica and won a tournament there. He had lots of pretty trophies. He got in a fight with one of my friends who took boxing lessons and got beat. I personally fought him at a party one time 2 years ago and beat him. Im leaning towards how effective an individual is at TKD that determines their self defense. Is it all about winning trophies and getting colorful belts?

[Cain]

this is really getting old kids.. "i have this friend, he did tkd, and he got beat"... please? try to come up with something more imaginative?

[david42018]

something more imaginative? All im bringing up is that TKD doesnt focus on self defense therefore it would be useless to take it if you want to defend yourself. And why would i make that up? Do you want his name, phone number, address, and the TKD school he took from since he was 7?

[Andrew WA]

TKD does too focus on self defense. Your friend must have went to a tournament focused school. Thats not TKD. That is sport.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I also kick wood and other things and punch brick or stone walls to condition my fists as well.

If you keep that up you'll suffer from arthiritis when you get older..... Just some FYI

TKD does too focus on self defense. Your friend must have went to a tournament focused school. Thats not TKD. That is sport.

As people have said before in the last couple threads, TKD IS a sport. TKD practioners teach you too many fancy moves for it to be a self defense. I remember back in my TKD days my instructor told us that if anyone were to grab our lapel in the streets or at school, You do this freaky fancy move to get out. Little did he know that we don't tend to wear kimono's 24/7.....