Where's the Beef?

[Szczepankiewicz]

Did you guys give up?

[Tom Yum]

Originally posted by jules
So take what works withing a certain set of rules and then "integrate" it.

Again, JKD is about self-defense not solely integration. Perhaps someone somewhere will branch off and create sport JKD (like TKD did.

But we know what happens when you take an art and turn it into a competitive sport. It gains popularity, people water it down so that anyone with $ can buy their way into the system and a Mc Dojo is born.

I've seen an excellent Korean martial arts school become the ultimate martial arts business. Guys who could pay over $1,000 for a black belt; guys who testing for their 1st dan BB still took 2-3 steps to execute a throw that's supposed to be done fluidly and quickly in 1 step, guys whose front kick, side kick and roundhouse kick were virtually indistinguishable. Some of these newly awarded black belts could not fight well enough to survive in a point sparring match.

They paid their way into a system for a colored belt. The instructors were really good and were good fighters, but the 2nd and 3rd generation students were getting rewarded for not performing at the same standards.

[William]

How does executing a particular technique in one environment indicate that the same technique will work in any other environment?

It doesn't. You work said technique/techniques in different scenarios, against a resisting partner or partners to get as close as safely possible to the real thing. The goal is to "up" the possibility of a successful execution of that technique. Whether you are a fighter prepping for an upcoming fight, or training for street self defense, you want to increase the chances that you will pull off successfully what you have trained.

The flaw, and this varies from person to person, is that people who train strictly for competition are not allowed to do certain things like gouge eyes, punch/grab throats, rip/box ears, take out knees etc... They train to "play" within a set of rules. When the shit hits the fan outside of that scenario, they are more likely to go into autopilot and use what's ingrained....which was dictated by a certain set of rules. Again, this doesn't apply to everyone, but over the years, I've fought / free sparred people from different sport martial arts backgrounds, and many still tend to play within the their rules because they were trained that way. It worked real good against people doing the same thing, but they couldn't break out (cross over) when something different come along. I watched a TKD BB get his ass handed to him by brawler. He tried to fight him like it was a point sparring match. The guy was jumping around, threw a couple of weak punches (like he was trying to score a point), then when he went to do some sort of spinning kick, the other dude just stepped in and threw a cross to the head...game over. Again, that doesn't always apply to everyone.

I came into the arts from a brawling background and have always approached my training from that perspective. Even my MT training (which many lump into sport) was always street oriented, Old style (which has so called "Killing" techniques) with elements of ring MT and conditioning. Could I apply myself across environments? Yes, but I'd be disqualified in short order for doing something "illegal" ( flow into autopilot). Besides, where would I put my edged and impact weapons?


>>Self defense is whatever works, whereas sports competitions set rules for the purpose of testing exact skills and styles.>>

Exactly my point.


William

[Tom Yum]

In my investigation of Chinese arts, alot of them practice striking the solar plexus, eyes, ears, neck, groin, knees etc. They do the techniques quickly without hurting their partner and they committ to the strike and the attacker never disengages but rather continues forward as if getting ready for another attack. This kind of continuos attack is like someone who is really pissed off or on something which seems realistic.

I think one of the self defense benefits of ring fighting is that it makes you a smarter fighter, like faking or attacking one area to open another, moving for angles, and conditions you for the shock of being hit hard. Remember what it was like to be hit head on from a rear cross or to smell blood in your nose from catching a few jabs or getting kicked in the thigh? I can still remember hobbling into my car the next morning.

I still don't like those sensations, but if I catch a solid shot it builds my intensity, like a focused rage but I never loose control. I didn't come from a street fighting background because when I started going to highschool, kids were just starting to pack.

[Tom Yum]

and other 80s commercial slogans

"Where's The Beef?"
"I'm not gonna pay a lot for this muffler."
"Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese - pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun"
"Why 1984 won't be like 1984"
"Thank you Easter Bunny!" "Bwok, Bwok!"
"I Heard It Through The Grapevine..."
"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful"
"Move over bacon, here comes something leaner!"
"Where's Herb?"
"I've fallen... and I can't get up!"
"Thank you for your support"
"Just kiss a little longer.."
"The quicker picker upper"
"Avoid the Noid"

[Bjjexpertise@be]

googley fat?

[MrPoopy]

Competition just proves that the winner was luckier than the loser in that competition. Top competitors all have good and bad days, and all of them eventually run out of steam.

All I know is that before it's all over, I will armbar and choke Spanky. Whether I win or lose after my desired armbar and choke doesn't matter.

[MrPoopy]

"Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese - pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun" <-- I don't think it's an 80's slogan.

[spiderchoke]

"Any man can beat any man, on any given day."
.....Unknown

I could fight the same guy 100 times, I can't win them all. The odds are against me. Unless he is really a 7 yr old black belt in TKD, then I win all 100.

Okay..............any age black belt in TKD.
LOL


"Everyday spent training is one day closer to learning something."
........Spiderchoke

[William]

Tastes Great! Less Filling!

Ohhhh, you can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay....but you doesn't have to call me Johnson.

Hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special orders won't up set us, blah, blah, blah at Burger King.

Digger the dog, digger he goes with you when you explore....just pull his leash, he's your dog for sure.

My buddy, my buddy, where ever I go - he goes. My buddy, my buddy, I'll teach him everything I know....



Yeah, I know. Im bored.

William

[Szczepankiewicz]

Well, we've certainly proven that the 80's were an interesting decade.

We've also pretty much come to the conclusion that competition in the martial arts doesn't prove anything beyond the realm of what happens in competition.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Well, we've certainly proven that the 80's were an interesting decade.

We've also pretty much come to the conclusion that competition in the martial arts doesn't prove anything beyond the realm of what happens in competition.

But competition is still fun though

[Thai Bri]

But where is the beef? I'm hungry...........

ps - I liked the post where someone reckoned competition proved something because the techniques would then be used in MMA........... Durrrrrrrr.

[William]

But competition is still fun though

Here, here.

Tally ho, with a bing and a bang and a buzz, buzz, buzz!


William