Royce Gracie making a Return to the UFC?

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Rumors over the internet are running rampant that Royce Gracie is to fight in an upcoming UFC event. His supposed opponent? None other than Matt Huges. This match is supposed to happen this upcoming November. The announcement is to happen in the next couple of weeks. If this is true (which from what I understand is almost guaranteed) what are the implications for this? Still to this day, Royce is still most recognized for his fights in the UFC. When asking the average person on the street about the UFC (that's if they do have an idea of what it is) Royce's name still comes up to this day. If Royce was to win this fight, what would it mean for the UFC. I doubt Royce would stick around. It seems like some kind of attempt at infusing a dose of excitement into the UFC. But, like aforementioned, if Royce wins it seems like it will just hurt the UFC that much more. However, the thing is the popular idea among many people is that Matt Huges is going to walk all over him.

Either way, it seems like a bad situation for the UFC. Matt is young and aggressive and Royce is getting old now. I can see him pulling guard and trying to change the game. (Which in all honesty I don't mind at all. I like watching the technical side of not taking punishment just as much as watching the Thors Hammer fall) UFC fans are typically blood thirsty animals frothing at the mouth cage side sniffing the air for blood -- booze in hand of course.

I am happy he is back, I like Royce as a fighter and just as a human being. I just can't help but think this will backfire on the UFC, which in all honesty, I would almost want to happen. Perhaps it will make Prides invasion of America that much easier and quicker.

[El Luchador]

I don't think it will happen.

New UFC Rules Do not allow the Gi
,Heel Kicks to the Back, Royce prfers to fight with out a time limit.

I would love to see the Fight but i guess
we will all have to wait & see.

[freefaller21]

It is not going to happen! I was over on sherdog and some dude said that he just had a private lesson with royce and asked him about it. Royce said it was just a rumour and has no intention of fighting for at least two years because he is so busy with teaching.

[Great Sage]

Yeah, I don't see Royce returning to the UFC. In his last fight with Shamrock, Royce got rocked pretty good and never returned. I think he realized from that day on that things were changing. Better fighters were coming in and the world of MMA was upon us.

I like Royce as a person and fighter, but against fighters of today's caliber, he's no match. Back then, GJJ gave you an edge because few people understood grappling—that was the catch. Now, it's not about style anymore, everyone is a skilled grappler, striker, etc... As Frank Shamrock eluded to, it's all a mind game that starts with conditioning.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

Wow Sage...


That is harsh..I can't belive you would go as far to basically say that Royce could not hack it with todays fighters..

Do you think he just stopped training?

Do you think that becuase he got "Pretty Rocked" in the match with Shamrock that he just said awe to hell with it? I don't understand what would bring you to that conclusion.

Since he last fought Shamrock, not only has he competed in PRIDE and othe MMA bouts but naturally becuase he is a dedicate martial artist he has continued to train, continued to hone his technique. I agree with my boy HeelHook when he says that Royce is getting old but to say that he is outclassed by his peers is a little over the edge in my opinion. And as far as your coment about people knowing grappling now from everything I have heard and seen about grappling, a master would rather grapple someone who knows what their doing...they are more easily bated becuase they know what openings to look for...

Just some food for thought.

[Great Sage]

MrBoxerGrappler,

My reply was not intended to discredit Royce Gracie, he’s a very capable fighter and well-liked by me. However, if you assess the state of MMA today, Royce Gracie is not as prolific a fighter as you may believe. Since the Ken Shamrock fight, Royce was choked out by Wallid, lost to Sakaruba and Yoshida. He did not return to the octagon like Ken Shamrock who made it an obssession to defeat Royce... Albeit, he didn’t really win.

In BJJ, Royce Gracie is a legend... Unforunately, I don’t care for another Bruce Lee trap. I’d rather remember Royce for the Champion he was. If we don’t agree, we can at least appreciate the changing of times and the handing over of the torch. MMA is far different from the days where a boxer fought a TKD guy, or savate against Judo, etc... Now, everyone is a skilled grappler, a Royce Gracie if you will, and much bigger and stronger...

[Grape_Ape]

I think he has too much to lose if he goes back. The Gracies have a reputation to uphold and going back would and facing possible defeat would not fit into their plan for world MA domination. People have criticized the Yoshida fight, but Royce did not accept Yoshida's offer for a rematch. Why? Because a loss under questionable circumstances is better than a possible loss the second time around.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

As I said...I totally disagree...

Now even more so..

You have people like Renzo, Rener, Royler and Ryan Gracie who are all out doing the exact same thing that Royce did. People like Noguera and Bustamante who still go out and use the same Gracie style..I don't belive at all that "everyone is a Royce Gracie now" And I belive that as a direct result of Royce, being a small compact fighter coming out and defeating bigger, larger, and some would say better oppopnets people have turned to the art of grappling, but to say that Royce has been surpassed which is what it sounds like you are saying is just down right silly. The man already had a head start with the BJJ craze becuase he was the one that MADE it a craze.

As far a the Yoshida fight goes, people critizied the decision by the referee to jump in..Which I belive is deserved becuase now we will not know what the outcome of a truly well fought battle would have been. Perhaps Royce would have tapped perhaps not..Who knows.. As far as not excepting the rematch because a contaversial loss is better then an out right loss??? Dude..Grape_Ape...You are just an A-hole. To suggest that is just a jack ass thing to do. The entire Gracie clan have said time and time again especiall Renzo who I find to be the one I see quotes from most often.. The reason their family does this is to prove their skill and test their skill against others..It is not about a win/loss column.

Now as far as everyone being a good grappler...I will give you that. The art of MMA has changed, people have learned that you need a balance of ground and stand up...But you can't say everyone is a grappler...you can hardly consider people like Gary Goodridge, Bas Rutten, Chuck Liddel, Bob Sapp, Wanderlei Silva and Igor Vonchanichan grapplers can you? Everytime Goodridge is taken to the ground he taps out...Every time Sakuraba took Silva to the ground in all three fights Silva would do whatever it took to get up...Bob sapp...Well he just lays on you and punches till someone puts him in an arm bar..

I mean come on...yes people have learned more about grappling yes, people realize it is a good skill to have but saying that everyone is the caliber of Royce Gracie? That's Laughable.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by Great Sage
Royce got rocked pretty good and never returned.

What in the Christ are you talking about? He got rocked? Ken would not do anything but lay in the guard the whole fight. He didn't fight at all back. That's what you call getting rocked? Interesting definition. After that (a few years after mind you) Ken started to talk about how he robbed Royce of his warrior spirit. Know what happened? Royce challenged him under any format. Doesn't sound like someone who got rocked so hard they ran away from the octagon and it's limiting rules

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Mr. Heel Hook
What in the Christ are you talking about? He got rocked? Ken would not do anything but lay in the guard the whole fight. He didn't fight at all back. That's what you call getting rocked?

You see what I mean... Now, Royce Gracie has fallen under the “Bruce Lee Syndrome.”

To answer your question... Near the end of the Shamrock/Gracie fight, Royce took a hard blow on the left side of his face. The entire thing swelled up and Royce didn’t look in his right mind. After that, you could just see and sense pain... On that note, telling a man who just went toe-to-toe with you that now you want to fight for real, especially since you started the UFC, is not very professional. Why didn’t Royce just enter the Octagon again?

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler
As I said...I totally disagree...

Now even more so..

You have people like Renzo, Rener, Royler and Ryan Gracie who are all out doing the exact same thing that Royce did. People like Noguera and Bustamante who still go out and use the same Gracie style..I don't belive at all that "everyone is a Royce Gracie now" And I belive that as a direct result of Royce, being a small compact fighter coming out and defeating bigger, larger, and some would say better oppopnets people have turned to the art of grappling, but to say that Royce has been surpassed which is what it sounds like you are saying is just down right silly. The man already had a head start with the BJJ craze becuase he was the one that MADE it a craze.

I mean come on...yes people have learned more about grappling yes, people realize it is a good skill to have but saying that everyone is the caliber of Royce Gracie? That's Laughable.

I was using Royce Gracie as a metaphor... And I wouldn’t classify him as compact and small either. I think he’s at least 6 feet and has long limbs. The point I’m making is that overall today we have better fighters incorporating elements of grappling and striking. To say that Royce Gracie studied JJ all his life and is the best grappler, therefore is the best fighter is not logical, nor true. Today’s fighters have enough understanding of grappling and can fight with their own techniques.

Bas Rutten has defeated grapplers with his limited knowledge of grappling. I would say he’s a higher caliber fighter than Royce Gracie, regardless of his grappling abilities... The same holds true of Sakaruba... Royce Gracie is a good fighter, but so are these guys...

I take BJJ, but I’m not so naive about fighting. If you take a good look at the first couple UFC’s the level of competition is light years from today. In UFC One, we see mostly out of shape traditional stylists who have no understanding of grappling... This continues through UFC three. Ken Shamrock became the prototype for fighters to come... And the end of the Gracie era.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

All right, I don't know where you are getting this "Bruce Lee Syndrome" from but it sounds like crap, just like the rest of your post on what I said. You think him getting a punch in the face and having a mouse (not swollen to the point of his head exploding) under it means he got rocked? Yeah, he took a punch hard...buckled...and recovered. It was a good...slash!...lucky punch. Anyone would look in "pain" if they caught a punch like that from Ken Shamrock. Any of your new breed of fighters that would seemingly dominate Royce.
Now, I am not sure where you got this "fight for real" line from, but that to is crap. What I said was after a few years, when Shamrock did some UFC special as a narrator. I still am unsure what the meaning of "rocked" is.

Definition of Rocked someone.
Main Entry: [1]rocked
Pronunciation: 'räk ed
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English rokken, from Old English roccian; akin to Old High German rucken to cause to move
Date: 12th century

1: Staying in someone's guard so close to make sure not to be capitalized upon if a mistake is made.

2: To not extend any limbs whatsoever and fight solely from the guard in such a tight fashion so not to be submitted.

3: Only to throw little rabbit punches and absolutely under no circumstances to pass the guard of the person you are 'rocking.'

Well, hell, a lot of people have been rocked then under that criteria.

Oh, and Royce didn't join the ruckus of the octagon again because the rules became retarded. Same reason no other Gracie fought there and why they all moved to Pride.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

I will not even dignify the fact that you think Bas Rutten is a better fighter with a responce..


The fact of the matter is yes...I think that all those people I mentioned and you mentioned (Well save Gray Goodridge) are good fighters..Sakuraba is one of the best JJ/ground artists I have seen... My point is simple..you claim that Royce has been outclassed, out grown, over matched or out done by todays MMA combatants and I just don't belive that is so... Becuase like I said, he would not just roll over and stop training...that is part of being an athlete...evolving with the game...Look at guys like Dan Severn...has the game evolved past him? No...the man still goes out and does the same damn thing he has always done and wins...I am not saying Royce is the best in MMA by anymeans, I am simply arguing the silly point that you brought up...As far a Shamrock being the "Prototype" for modern fighters I belive that he and Royce both were Prototypes...hence you have men like Noguera, Bustemane, Carlos Newton, all the other JJ artists competing today...it is becuase Royce brought it to the main stream...

[Great Sage]

You’re full of crap...

I’m not the one preaching, “Royce Gracie can beat anyone,” like the Bruce Lee fanatics. Tell me, has Royce Gracie beaten the likes of Tito Ortiz, Frank Shamrock, Sakaruba, Bob Sapp or Vanderlei Silva...? How about Randy Coulture? Nope, he fought a couple of guys who had no understanding of grappling or MMA...

It’s a different ball game now. To assume that Royce Gracie is going to simply dominate a professional fighter skilled in grappling and striking is nonsense.

Don’t insult my intelligence with your pathetic criteria... Please... A boxer goes into a clinch after being rocked... Gracie went into the guard.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Don't insult anyone's "intelligence" with YOUR presumptuous crap. Where did I assume that Royce would beat "anyone who dared faced him in the great fiery ring of oblivion known as M-M-A" Do yourself a favor. Stop putting words into peoples mouths. You have done it several times. What I will assume is that Royce WILL never get rolled on. He will never get his ass handed to him by anyone. Like apparently Ken did by laying in his guard for 36 minutes.
I'm full of crap, huh? Maybe because you have been force feeding it down my throat with your BS.


People shouldn't assume. It makes an ASS-of-U-and-ME.

But mostly you.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Oh, and you suck at being a Sage. Get a new job.