Royce Gracie making a Return to the UFC?

[MrBoxerGrappler]

Dude..what are you talking about?

A couple of guys with no concept of grappling?

Ken Shamrock- Shoot Fighter
Dan Sevrn- Grecco Roman Wrestler
Nobuhiko Takada- Wrestler

All consider Great Fighters around the world..

No one ever said that he would beat anyone..all I said was you were discrediting him which you contiue to do..

What Criteria are you calling pathetic? I didn't even know I laid one down..

As for Tito Ortiz, Frank Shamrock, Bob Sapp or Silva...

A...I can GUARENTEE that Royce would defeate Sapp...and for you to put him on that list is silly...

B. I would love to see Frank or Tito face off with Royce...

C. I belive Silva is just what he says he is..The Answer To Grapplers, I think he would handle Royce just like he handled Sakuraba.


P.S. Calm yourself it is a debate...

[Great Sage]

Ah... Ye of little logic,

In case you haven't heard, it's called inclination... You guys have done enough to support Royce Gracie than I care to mention. I mean I know you're a closed-minded, but I though I would at least tell you...

MGB's statement was that Royce Gracie hasn't been surpassed as a fighter. Therefore, it's a contradiction that now he's not capable of defeating other MMA guys.

If that's the case, then why not present some hard evidence or at least a rebuttal. I gave you that chance when I asked the rhetoric about MMA fighters.

Apparently, Heel dork is incapable of logical thought... Best to leave thinking to the geniuses...

[Great Sage]

Boxer Grappler... I wasn't talking about you... Bob Sapp and Royce Gracie... I think Sapp has his number... The guard won't work here. Noguera won because he's naturally a strong fighter...

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by Great Sage

Apparently, Heel dork is incapable of logical thought... Best to leave thinking to the geniuses...

Heel...dork...? Christ man! What the hell happened to you as a child to make you such a bitter and cruel human being!? I can't even continue this conversation with you. I feel as though I have been scared from the viscious name calling. Now, I am going to run along and pay someone to think for me. Maybe give me a few names to call you back. Uh...Sage...dork...uh...ye beef n ale...

[MrBoxerGrappler]

No that again is just silly since you know that Royce has not fought in 2 years since he beat Takada..who as I am sure you know is a well thought of opponent..He has been dedicated to teaching for two years...my point is....god it is getting old repeating it...In your opinion you belive that becuase other fighters have learned ground skills you don't think his expertise will be effective...my opionion is that you are wrong that as a fighter and I am positive about Renzo his cousin becuase I have quotes I can show you but I assume the same is true of Royce that he has conitnued to evolve as a fighter learning standup techniques and of course still working on his ground...What don't you understand? Becuase some one does not fight in two years he is washed up? Well in that case your beloved Ken Shamrock must be finished after getting TRULY Rocked by Tito Ortiz and not fighting again right away...The point is you made an arbatrary statement and you were called on it, now instead of backing it up with FACT not just your opinion you name call and shove your opion around some more...


Like I said...it's a debate..

[JIMI]

This is some funny sh!t. Keep going fellas......

[Mr. Heel Hook]

[Great Sage]

Frist off, I used the Shamrock fight as a precursor to my point. Second of all, the ground game is not the definitive element of a fight anymore. Once you understand that you can appreciate my point. Style is of little importance now in MMA. Everyone knows the ground game to a degree... That doesn’t make them automatic grappling experts, but it doesn’t mean they’re pushovers either.

Your logic implies that BJJ will prevail against a professional athlete with grappling and striking skills... Not true... It becomes a chess match and the better conditioned fighter usually wins. Yes, Gracie is probably a better grappler than some, but that doesn’t make him the better fighter. There ARE higher caliber fighters in MMA today—my point. Your point implies that Royce is not “washed up” and is every bit as prolific as contemporary fighters... Not true, since he hasn’t beaten any of them.

Ken Shamrock was done long ago. As I said he’s a prototype of today’s fighters... I never mentioned that he was still the champion... That’s stupid and naive.

Your opinion that I am wrong to assume other fighters are the same caliber as Royce Gracie is misplaced and bias... And has no proof. You yourself have said that Gracie is not the top MMA guy, so why wouldn’t these guys be of a higher caliber?

A debate? I’ve given nothing but reasons, and yet you come back to the same baseless argument... “They don’t know as much about grappling..” So what? They know enough and are professional fighters...

[MrBoxerGrappler]

Jesus FIN CHIRIST...


Do you even read my responces Ass clown?

For Christ sakes...

I have NEVER ONCE SAID that Royce Gracie was a Prolific, Top Warrior and GJJ would prevail over all I never said anything like that...

MY POINT...>!

For the umpteenth time is that you can't rightly say that these people are BETTER THEN HIM! You can't rightly say THAT HE CAN NOT COMPETE WITH THEM...just becuase he hasn't beat them...That is rediculous...that is like saying I am better then Tito Ortiz becuase I have trained in standup and grappling aswell as BJJ for a long time and he has never beat me! THAT IS MORONIC!
I never once said that there were not higher caliber fighters in MMA today...hell I even said I belive Silva would handle Royce...Stop putting words in my mouth for the sake of your argument.

[smith&wesson]

I like this thread. Royce has gone a ghost. And the respect gets lose.
What I wish is a fight with Dan Henderson (wrestling), and with a win of Royce (what I expect) a fight against Rany Couture (if he gets the shoe over Ortiz) or against Ortiz if things turn araound.
Royce has made himself a side note.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler
MY POINT...>!

For the umpteenth time is that you can't rightly say that these people are BETTER THEN HIM! You can't rightly say THAT HE CAN NOT COMPETE WITH THEM...just becuase he hasn't beat them...That is rediculous...that is like saying I am better then Tito Ortiz becuase I have trained in standup and grappling aswell as BJJ for a long time and he has never beat me! THAT IS MORONIC!
I never once said that there were not higher caliber fighters in MMA today...hell I even said I belive Silva would handle Royce...Stop putting words in my mouth for the sake of your argument.

Why don't you calm down and stop constradicting yourself... You say that there's no possible way to tell if MMA guys can defeat Royce Gracie, yet you say Silva can? That's a contradiction of your core statement and exactly what I have been saying all along.

Sorry, but your implication is that everything is relative, which is not realistic. Your analogy also sucks, because we're not talking about you... We're talking about Royce Gracie and professional MMA fighters.

How is it that you were able to deduce that Silva would defeat Royce? The same reason I'm telling you that MMA guys today are of a higher caliber than Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock or Dan Severn, etc...

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler
Stop putting words in my mouth for the sake of your argument.

But that is like his thing to do, dude. That and trying wicked hard to sound cerebral.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

My god you are thick...


A. My Core point as you call it is that YOU CAN'T make the claim that your making...and the anaolgy was intended to be stupid so that you would see how stupid your argument his...hence calling it moronic..

B. I did not say there is not possible way to tell...I said basing it on the fact that they he has not beat any of them is a farse...Hence not contradicting myself when I said I belive Silva would beat him..


God I feel like I am dealing with my three year old sister.

[Thai Bri]

Anyway, it is still a good point to say that the Gracies could totally dominate an even where no-one really knew any grappling. But now that grappling is wide spread (paradoxically, because of the Gracies) they find the world a much harder place.

Surely theres no arguing with that?

[El Luchador]

BAS Has Finished More Fights With Submisson than Strike!

Originally posted by Great Sage


You see what I mean... Now, Royce Gracie has fallen under the “Bruce Lee Syndrome.”

To answer your question... Near the end of the Shamrock/Gracie fight, Royce took a hard blow on the left side of his face. The entire thing swelled up and Royce didn’t look in his right mind. After that, you could just see and sense pain... On that note, telling a man who just went toe-to-toe with you that now you want to fight for real, especially since you started the UFC, is not very professional. Why didn’t Royce just enter the Octagon again?



I was using Royce Gracie as a metaphor... And I wouldn’t classify him as compact and small either. I think he’s at least 6 feet and has long limbs. The point I’m making is that overall today we have better fighters incorporating elements of grappling and striking. To say that Royce Gracie studied JJ all his life and is the best grappler, therefore is the best fighter is not logical, nor true. Today’s fighters have enough understanding of grappling and can fight with their own techniques.

Bas Rutten has defeated grapplers with his limited knowledge of grappling. I would say he’s a higher caliber fighter than Royce Gracie, regardless of his grappling abilities... The same holds true of Sakaruba... Royce Gracie is a good fighter, but so are these guys...

I take BJJ, but I’m not so naive about fighting. If you take a good look at the first couple UFC’s the level of competition is light years from today. In UFC One, we see mostly out of shape traditional stylists who have no understanding of grappling... This continues through UFC three. Ken Shamrock became the prototype for fighters to come... And the end of the Gracie era.

Bas is a Certified Hybrid Wrestling instructor Through Pancrase!

Royce Could Hang With today's fighters.
He Proved to be a worthy Apponet for Sak.
He got Ripped of In The Yoshida Fight.

He would not Do UFC cause of The Time Limits
& the fact That the Gi is no longer allowed to be worn.

And to Put Royce in the Same Line as Bruce Lee is
The Highest Acheivment.

Bruce Was The Man!!!