Royce Gracie making a Return to the UFC?

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler
A. My Core point as you call it is that YOU CAN'T make the claim that your making...and the anaolgy was intended to be stupid so that you would see how stupid your argument his...hence calling it moronic..

Well... I have and it's based on observation and comparison. Royce Gracie was beaten silly by Sakaruba... He threw in the towel unable to continue. Silva has confirmed with this third win that he's a better fighter than Sak... By comparison, we can see that most top-notch fighters in MMA are around the same caliber—Tito, Silva, Sak, Nog, etc... Hence, you have my hypothesis.

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler
B. I did not say there is not possible way to tell...I said basing it on the fact that they he has not beat any of them is a farse...Hence not contradicting myself when I said I belive Silva would beat him..

Yes, you are contradicting yourself because you assume there's no way to tell, yet you rely on the same principle I have used. You compared the two fighters (Silva and Gracie) and formed a hypothesis. If what you say is true, how can Silva be a better fighter than Gracie? They haven't fought. Where's the reasoning behind your conclusion? I gave you mine... And that is that Royce Gracie probably cannot win against most MMA guys today because they are well aware of grappling and striking abilities.

I never said Royce Gracie was "washed up" as you eluded... I said that the fighters have gotten better.

Originally posted by MrBoxerGrappler
God I feel like I am dealing with my three year old sister.

Likewise, but in my case you're not even born yet.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

Dude....

You really really are getting old...

Aparently you have this idea in your head of what I am saying and your not reading what I say in responce at all.

Royce did not get destroyed by Sakuraba, it was an excellent match, even Sakuraba himself said that Royce was a "Worthy Opponent."

I am not using the formula of "He hasn't beat him so he can't be better." That was merly a retaliation to your comment.Where you took the stance that Royce has not proved himself against anyone of said fighters...I don't belive that just becuase he hasn't beaten them they are not better then them..


Let me try and explain my point better since I really don't belive either of us are understanding the other.

My stance is this.

I belive that Royce Gracie could come out and compete in MMA today. I do not belive he would be the number one guy, but I belive that he could still do well for himself. I do not belive that just becuase a large portion of MMA Combatants have now trained in grappling that Gracie will be impotent in the ring. I do however agree with you that the level of play since the first three UFC bouts where Royce, Severn and Shamrock were dominant has raised. With men like Nog and Silva the bar has been raised...on that we agree..Our only disagrement is that you belive that Royce can no longer be a "Competitor" Correct me if I am wrong please.

[Great Sage]

And you’re really not a logical person...

My argument from the start was that Royce Gracie cannot win against the best of MMA, because the fighters have gotten better. You yourself arrived at the conclusion that Silva would annihilate him... I never used the formula of “he didn’t beat this guy, or that guy..” It was a rhetoric referring to the quality of fighters then and now.

As you will recall from my earlier post, I admittedly stated that Royce Gracie was a capable fighter... That doesn’t mean he can’t win, but against the likes of Tito, Silva among other top MMA guys his chances are greatly diminished because he’s no longer dealing with individuals who are one dimensional—Dan Severn was a wrestler who later improved his striking and submissions, Kimo was a striker who later improved his submissions and Ken Shamrock was perhaps the closest thing to a MMA guy back then.

I’m well aware that Royce Gracie has continued to train... He does boxing 3 times a week among other things. He hasn’t changed as a competitor, but the times have and so have the athletes in MMA...

Anyway, I'm tired of beating a dead horse... It's fine we're in disagreement... No harm done...

[smalldog]

Royce got ROCKED by a huge hay maker that Shamrock landed.His eye was as big as a softball.That is when he fell to guard and Shamrock just stayed there and ground and pounded him.Maybe not as well as Ortiz or Couture can g&p ....but Shammy had the right idea.

[shadowkiller]

Unless royce has really updated his skills he is going to get beaten badly. He was good but then came sakuraba and all the submission fighters and now.....


Its not going to be a happy night for royce I dont think.

[Mr. Miyagi]

He has the right idea by fighting people like Yoshida, people who don't pose a big danger but are respectable enough to make it worthwhile. He's not going to fight Silva because he knows he can't beat him, no Gracie is going to fight Silva for the same reason. I think Renzo would have the balls to fight him though.
If Royce really wanted to, maybe he could be top 10 at his weight, but that would be detrimental to his career. He's already a legend, he's not as young and strong as some of these fighters, he has nothing to gain, and nothing to prove. He is a success, why tarnish that?
Royce got owned by Sak in that fight. He couldn't threaten him in any way and the only reason it went so long is because they are both grappler-sub fighters and Royce couldn't be caught in a sub by Sak. That was amazing of him to come fight in that tournament after such a long layoff from mma.
We hate to admit it, but Helio's sons, as good as they are, are no longer spring chickens.

[gracilva]

Rumors over the internet are running rampant that Royce Gracie is to fight in an upcoming UFC event. His supposed opponent? None other than Matt Huges. This match is supposed to happen this upcoming November. The announcement is to happen in the next couple of weeks. If this is true (which from what I understand is almost guaranteed) what are the implications for this? Still to this day, Royce is still most recognized for his fights in the UFC. When asking the average person on the street about the UFC (that's if they do have an idea of what it is) Royce's name still comes up to this day. If Royce was to win this fight, what would it mean for the UFC. I doubt Royce would stick around. It seems like some kind of attempt at infusing a dose of excitement into the UFC. But, like aforementioned, if Royce wins it seems like it will just hurt the UFC that much more. However, the thing is the popular idea among many people is that Matt Huges is going to walk all over him.

Either way, it seems like a bad situation for the UFC. Matt is young and aggressive and Royce is getting old now. I can see him pulling guard and trying to change the game. (Which in all honesty I don't mind at all. I like watching the technical side of not taking punishment just as much as watching the Thors Hammer fall) UFC fans are typically blood thirsty animals frothing at the mouth cage side sniffing the air for blood -- booze in hand of course.

I am happy he is back, I like Royce as a fighter and just as a human being. I just can't help but think this will backfire on the UFC, which in all honesty, I would almost want to happen. Perhaps it will make Prides invasion of America that much easier and quicker.

hey mr heel hook, long time no hear, good to see you back.
i would love to see royce come back, hope it is true.
he seems to be very underestimated, so i would love to see
him prove us right or wrong, whatever our opinions might be.