Which art would you choose

[RobertG]

I was under the same impression about Capoeira. It doesn't exactly look practical kicking from handstands and while you're on the ground and such. However, historically speaking, Capoeira is only recently "domesticated" and removed from the street. It was actually banned in Brazil for about 40 years (1890s to 1930s I think) because it was essentially the fighting art of street gangs. Certainly in the last 70 years some amount of purely aesthetic elements have entered into the art. But there's got to be a nucleus of material there that is still applicable in real fighting. Its got to be difficult to fight a Capoeirista if you're not familiar with the art. The guy is bouncing around, agile as hell, kicking you from weird angles. But the fact remains it was street tested in the same dangerous era and area that the Gracie's honed their Jujitsu in. Of course, the street Capoeira used weapons (knives and sticks), so I imagine that added to the lethality quite a lot. This is all what I've got from reading, obviously anyone with firsthand experience with Capoeira should feel free to correct me and/or elaborate.

[shasan]

I believe it was developed by the African slaves brought to Brazil by the portugese for purposes of self-defence.

So you're right, like any other martial art (even aikido ) it must have a core that was actually useful in a combative situation.

[Uke]

I know this subject is old, but I just wanted to add my two cents.

Aikido was NOT street tested, or used in battle on a real war-playing field. It is the watered down version of Aiki-jitsu, which was a striking/joint-manipulating art that was created for warfare. Ueshiba supposedly created Aikido out of a desire to kill no more, so he removed anything he felt was lethal. A soft art that used momentum and strikes that werent deadly.

As far as capoeira goes, I have friends who practice it also. In fact, if you are in NY there is a Capoeira Festival tomorrow in Queens. There are 2 main schools of Capoeira: Regional and Angola. Regional is the style of Capoeira that most of you have described as flips and such. Angola is primarily all done on or very close to the ground.

While most schools of capoeira teach it as a fancy-looking art with afro-brazilian culture, it is more. Some schools have training with real blades. Some are as proficient as an Arnis practictioners while being much more agile. While Kyokushin is the most popular art associated with pressure-point knockouts, some branches of Capoeira teach PP KO's as well. And while some of you are under the misconception that there are no hand techniques in Capoeira, there are in many schools.

Remember, Capoeira is an old art. It was used in times of war in Africa, as well as in Brazil. Supposedly, many of the "killing" aspects of Capoeira have either been lost or just aren't taught anymore since its transition to Brazil. Many of the techniques from Capoeira had been modified because of the inability to practice without the fear of death by the Conquistadors. Its because of the same situation that Capoeira isn't the "pure" art it used to be. One of my friend's instructors is amazing. He actually sparred a high ranking Shotokan man and played with him the whole time, even though the Shotokan man was throwing with bad intentions. Capoeira can be deadly if you're taught to use it in that respect. Plus, the athleticism found in Capoeira in far superior to any of the arts mentioned.

As far as Bando, many martial arts in NY have been influenced by it, including Sanuces and Kumite Ryu. Those arts are also decendants of Vee Jitsu. Finding good instruction in Bando isn't easy. While it is a very aggressive art, there are better, more well-rounded arts out there., like the ones mentioned above that actually have Bando techniques intergrated in them.

As far as Bak Mei and Dragon Kung Fu, they are nice, but unless your instructor was a "closed-door" private student, 9 times out of 10 he knows the forms but not the true application of those arts. Most Chinese arts are like that... they are very secretive and won't teach any non-chinese the applicable aspects of any art meant to kill or maim. That's why Wing Chun is so popular. Its fast self defense, but its meant to box, not kill.

BJJ is the new fad art. While its necessary to learn ground techniques, its not practical to lay on your back in any combat situation. The Gracies have only survived thus far because every match they've had has been in controlled enviornments. They always fight with about 15-20 relatives surrounding a match, whether it be inside a school or on a beach, so everything can remain fair. Anyone who is familiar with street-combat knows that the word "fair" doesn't have a place in a street scenario. Ground fighting, whether it be BJJ, Sambo or shoootfighting are cool for competition, but lets see someone put me in the guard while I have a pocket knife, or if my friends are standing on the side waiting for an opening to jump in, or if we are in the middle of a crowded nightclub. I'd advocate learning ground fighting ONLY as a means to defend against an adversary who employs ground techniques, never as a sole means of combat or even combat knowledge.

If you want practicality, then I agree with the above poster who suggested Krav Maga, or other arts geared specifically for urban realities. Shootfighting and BJJ do not prepare anyone for defense against weapons, multiple attackers or defense in places where going to the ground is not an option. Not competently anyway.

I say this in no way to insult any practitioner in any way. I only recognize things for what they are. A ring art is a ring art, as a street-orientated art is made specifically for street-SURVIVAL. "Street" meaning any conflict that's non-military and non-sport.

[Ironpalm]

ask a troll....

[Ronson]

To Uke,

"BJJ is the new fad art. While its necessary to learn ground techniques, its not practical to lay on your back in any combat situation."

- BJJ and MMA is not a fad, it's an evolution in evidenced-based combat. It took all the bullshit, conjecture, and mysticism out of MA. The explosion of Karate and TKD after the release of the "Karate Kid" was a fad.

- why is it that people who knock grappling/submission fighting for street app. always assume that "grapplers/BJJ" guys will lie on their back to fight. It shows you know dick-all about the grappling arts. BJJ and other similiar arts gives you a "base" so that you can dictate where you want the fight to go. The best "anti-grappling" training is grappling. Also using BJJ in a fight can mean "spiking" an opponent to the ground or maintaining a very mobile "knee-on-belly." Finally, if I did end up on my back in a fight, my BJJ against an average street opponent will give me the best chance to defend, sub., or sweep and get up right away.

- is BJJ the end-all-be-all? No art is, but its training ("aliveness"/fully resisting opponents) and its effectiveness in combat (yes I know, MMA is not the street but it's the closest thing - how the hell is Kata and multiples training any closer to the street?)

[LoneWolf1]

What are these herbs u speak of and u mean use them topically right?

[EmptyneSs]

bjj us a huge fad. its a great art regardless, but it is a huge fad right now.

[Ironpalm]

2345678909

[47MartialMan]

All Of Them And More