gracie jujitsu book

[number18]

Originally posted by Great Sage
Although I don't entirely agree with Nutz on the subject of BJJ, I do agree that the Gracie book is simply a ploy to make money... It's basically useless.

First of all, the book is categorized into belt sections which makes no sense, since BJJ is based on how well you execute techniques, NOT how many techniques you know...

The most dissapointing aspect of the book is that there are no advanced techniques... All you get is a few guard passes and mount escapes, coupled with simple submission holds.

You seem to really be missing the point of the book. But I don't understand why, since you are correct in saying that BJJ is based on how well you execute the techniques, not how many you know. When Rener Gracie was staying over my house as a guest, he was telling me that a couple of very ignorant people had read through the book, memorized the techniques, and showed up at someone's GJJ school asking to get tested for their black belt. And what happened? The guy got schooled. Cause he used the book the wrong way. The book is only a reference guide, not some secret scroll or some ish like that. I mean, any martial arts "manual" is the same. It's stupid to believe you can simply read through it, memorize the techniques on the pages, and then you'll be all set to defend yourself against the world. No...that's just silly.

To me, that book is very useful, since I am a beginner in GJJ. So are the various GJJ/BJJ tapes out there. They aren't a replacement for actually getting out there and rolling with someone, but they are helpful in their own way. Seeing moves executed from different angles, from places you can't see when you're actually performing them.....it's all very helpful to me. But like I said, the book is just a reference guide. Just like any other martial arts manual. I'm certainly not going to look up some black or purple belt move, practice the hell out of it, and think I'm good. That's why it's in the black/purple belt section. The moves are more complicated and for more advanced situations that occur during rolling. I mean, the book itself is written with the assumption that you are already familiar with the very basics of GJJ. So yeah.

And on that note, I must comment, Great Sage... Aren't you a beginner in BJJ yourself? What are you doin saying there's no advanced moves? What are you lookin for? Red belt stuff? Croikey!

[akja]

Originally posted by Mr. Heel Hook



Useless? I don't know about that. The book has some excellent techniques in it that should be practiced a bit. But regardless of the move count and so forth, you can never get anywhere unless you spar a whole bunch. Knowing moves and doing them well are two different things. I suppose it is just nice to have a small encyclopedia lying around to look at every once in a while.

I agree on your opinion of the book and your reasoning actually executing techniques that you know!

Before I took BJJ I "thought" I knew how to grapple. I did, but I didn't compare to how I can tie someone into a knot now.

I keep hearing in the JKD threads a lot of crap about learning from books as their primary source and they claim they are doing JKD. When it comes to books its the same for JKD as it is with all arts.

A student still needs an instructor. A book will not teach Randori. A book will not give us resistance. A book WILL help us see things we might not have seen previously while training and enhace our training.

And once you reach a certain level you will be able to translate the menchanics of a technique that you see in a book by just looking at it and then be able to work in it to your program.

[number18]

Oooh...well said, akja. =golf claps=

[MrBoxerGrappler]

Originally posted by Great Sage


The most dissapointing aspect of the book is that there are no advanced techniques... All you get is a few guard passes and mount escapes, coupled with simple submission holds.

I would love to know who you were rolling with that these guard passes were so simple...perhaps you should find a training partner who is a little more advanced and see how simple said techniques are..just my opinion

[MrPoopy]

Beautifuly done book but shows it as more a sport .Definatly has many good points but throws are shown standing still classical crap .improper driving force (direction) (pushing leg)Gracies don't know how to teach throwing properly.

I'd have to agree that throws in BJJ are taught differently. The same throw could be done in Judo and BJJ but would be setup totally different in each art.

But it's a different game when you're main objective is to throw your opponent.

[number18]

Don't let me start something big, and take this as just me musing a loud...but GJJ is it's own martial art. As is every other martial art out there. I mean, it has been transformed into it's own art from something else. So I kind of have trouble understanding why someone would bother saying GJJ (or the Gracies themselves) don't know how to teach throwing properly. So nice point on that, Poopysan. However, this IS all just coming from a book and it's already been established by a Gracie himself that at least one detail has been left out from the moves and whatnot. Word.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Never mind the fact it isn't Judo...

[kevin green]

When two tigers fight one is killed the other is injured. But when the tiger misses the housecat the little pussy can come back and piss on him!

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Are you saying you want someone to pee on you? Man, thats messed up...................

[Great Sage]

Oh great... Now, I’ve got Three stooges: Heelhook, Boxergrappler and Number18—defending GJJ at every turn... Unfortunately, “Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Theory and Technique” is NOT a great book.

There are problems from the start. The first flaw is that it it broken up into belt rankings. There’s also very poor organization—moves are haphazardly put together in a any order without sequence. You also have a lot of filler material like the five ways to defend a wrist grab, or six headlock escapes and how to tie your belt. Yet, there are only two guard passes, no advanced escapes, no sweeps or submissions from half guard. To top it off, the first guard pass will get you caught in a Triangle.

There’s more... Both Renzo and Royler are wearing white, making it hard to distinguish moves. The book also randomly mixes Vale Tudo and self-defense moves with sport BJJ without ever distinguishing the difference. Also, the photos are often too small and can be hard to follow.

BOTTOMLINE: This book is poorly written is should not serve a guide, since the beginner will get a false impression of BJJ.

[MrBoxerGrappler]

Again...you have not read peoples responces....

The books itself is a referance guide...it is not a training manual...As far as the filler material....avoiding risk grabs and escaping head locks and such in my opinion is valuble, I am not sure why you belive it to be filler...

And being called a Stoodge...man...that was harsh...it really hurt my feelings, I am not sure that I can post upon this forum anymore..



P.S.

[number18]

Originally posted by Great Sage
Oh great... Now, I’ve got Three stooges: Heelhook, Boxergrappler and Number18—defending GJJ at every turn... Unfortunately, “Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Theory and Technique” is NOT a great book.

There are problems from the start. The first flaw is that it it broken up into belt rankings. There’s also very poor organization—moves are haphazardly put together in a any order without sequence. You also have a lot of filler material like the five ways to defend a wrist grab, or six headlock escapes and how to tie your belt. Yet, there are only two guard passes, no advanced escapes, no sweeps or submissions from half guard. To top it off, the first guard pass will get you caught in a Triangle.

There’s more... Both Renzo and Royler are wearing white, making it hard to distinguish moves. The book also randomly mixes Vale Tudo and self-defense moves with sport BJJ without ever distinguishing the difference. Also, the photos are often too small and can be hard to follow.

BOTTOMLINE: This book is poorly written is should not serve a guide, since the beginner will get a false impression of BJJ.

Ok. The following is all fact:

- It seems you are a complete and utter a-hole. Keyword is "seems." Reasons follow.

- I am not a "third stooge."

- I am not defending Gracie Jiu-Jitsu "at every turn." What is this? My 5th post? What are you basing this on?

- Thusly, there was NO reason for you to write a post calling me names and accusing me of things when you have so little to base things on.

- Thusly, you're a psycho.

- The book is not meant to be used as some sort of manual for a beginner. That is why the belt level starts at BLUE BELT. Not WHITE BELT. As said in my previous post, the book assumes you are already familiar and apt in the basic techniques of a white belt.

- Renzo and Royler both wearing white gis DOES make it hard to distinguish who is who.

- The book is titled "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Theory and Technique," not "Sport BJJ Techniques." If you would like Sport BJJ techniques only, and not randomly mixed-in Vale Tudo and self-defense moves, I'm sure there is a book for you out there.

- "To top it off, the first guard pass will get you caught in a Triangle." Using another guard pass should be adequate. That's why there is more than one. But again, this a blue belt technique, not white belt.

- Just because a blue, purple, brown or black belt technique can be completed with some success doesn't necessarily mean that it's good for white belts like you and I to go around using it. Again, this is the reason it is not a white belt technique.

- "Also, the photos are often too small and can be hard to follow." A book with bigger photos would likely have to be bigger in size and cost much more than 30 dollars. Personally, I find the photos to be more than adequate for their purpose.

- "defending GJJ at every turn... Unfortunately, “Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Theory and Technique” is NOT a great book." Apparently we are defending a Brazilian JJ book, even though we are, according to you, Great Sage, the great defenders of Gracie JJ.


...and lastly the opinion part of my post (as all previous was fact)...

- "BOTTOMLINE: This book is poorly written is should not serve a guide, since the beginner will get a false impression of BJJ."
You give me the impression that you are either (1)trying to learn BJJ straight from this book and finding what you're "learning" to be inadequate when sparring (because the book will not suffice for actual class time), (2)have no clue that there is indeed a difference between simple Brazilian JJ and Gracie JJ, (3)or just hate on anyone with the last name Gracie for no good reason. Or it could just a combination of all three, ya know?

Well, whatever the reason, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease don't reply to my post with some BS and more name-calling. Remember, only the very last part here was an opinion. The rest of it was ALLLLLLLLLLLLL fact, and how can you dispute facts?

[Great Sage]

Puahahaha... Unfortunately, you guys have not presented any reason to believe this book is remotely good, let alone mediocre. You say it’s a guide... If it is, it’s a bad one because as anyone knows, a purple belt basically knows every technique a black belt does. Putting techniques into belt sections is a bad way of referring to your own style, escpecially when it contradicts.

Again, where are the sweeps, advanced escapes and half guard techniques? If this is truly a guide for intermediate study, why go indepth into wrist grabs, headlock escapes and how to tie your belt while avoiding obvious manuevers that are reminiscent of BJJ...

If it’s a guide, why are the techniques simply scattered everywhere without any sequence of organization? Frankly, your loyalty amuses me, but it’s no consolation for the poor quality of this book.

[kevin green]

The Sage does not accept things just because he is spoon fed some garbage .He will decide whether he spits it out or digests it. Sage are you comfortable bowing to some of these bozos and calling them master. Were I come from there is a lake where people fish and someone can get a job baiting hooks as an aprentice hook baiter. After two months of this they become a
Master - Baiter.

[Great Sage]

Kevin,

I study Gracie-Style Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I have the utmost respect for it’s lineage and masters. In fact, I hope to be training with Royce Gracie this Fall if the deal falls through. I have no problem with BJJ... It just so happens that this book isn’t great, or good.

I’m being objective about it, not bias. When I first learned that Renzo and Royler were writing a book, I figured it was going to be great. But after viewing it and comparing it to other books, it’s not so great. Which is fine, since the most technical BJJ fighters don’t necessarily make great authors.