Wrestling Takedowns

[BadgerFu57]

I have trained for BJJ for a few months and I am on the wrestling team in high school. Right now we are just doing pre-season, but I stay late and grapple a bit. Wrestlers have excellent takedowns and takedown defense, one thing I didn't get much of in BJJ.

Anyone have any favorite takedowns or suggestions as to how to be a better stand-up grappler?

[BadgerFu57]

The grappling I learned in BJJ was good, just the guard isn't too useful of a position in wrestling, and all of the joint-manipulation and chokes are pretty much gone.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

why isn't the guard useful in wrestling? can't you still use it?

[MrPoopy]

train good with these guys. for not having any submissions they are very good at defending themselves from a grappler.

[BadgerFu57]

the guard isn't useful in wrestling because the object of the sport is to PIN your opponent. On the guard, uh, well your on your back. Being on your back is bad in wrestling.

[psyfered]

Wish i could answer this.. I not too familliar with BJJ but i do train grecko Roman wrestlign at central high

I'm not much of a stand up grappler, seeing thats what your looking for tips on.. Even though I've been told to be because of my strength.. and balance from boxing

I think the best take down is the single leg for any stand up grappler. Depending on how strong you are, and agile to catch that leg and not buckle during a sprawl


You can do alot once you have the leg clutched and standing toe to toe.. just go with the flow from there.

[JaredExtreme]

One thing about wrestlers when they go for the takedown: they usually expose their necks for guillotines when they go for takedowns.

[MasterChief]

I assume you're doing collegiate (folkstyle) wrestling in high school and you want to know good takedowns for high school wrestling? Not sure if a forum will add any information that your high-school coach hasn't already covered, but...

You can go a long ways one you master 1 leg and 1 upper body takedown. Most high schoolers drill the single and the double (leg) until they can do them in their sleep. Then if you match up against a good defensive sprawler, then you want to go upper body with throw.

Most kids get the head-and-arm (upper body throw) first and it can take anybody down. Once you can throw it and not overcommit so that you get "spooned" or "rolled" when you hit the mat, you'll be set. Or if you're the sweaty type who can't hang on to the head-and-arm, drill the underhook throw. Its very similar but your far arm goes under his armpit rather than around his neck/head.

Really, if you have a good single (or double) leg and a good throw, you can get many many high-school takedowns. Against the really good wrestlers, though, you'll need much more, such as arm drags, ankle picks, and firemans, because they'll defend the basic takedowns as well as you can throw them.

The really great wrestler have a huge assortment of takedowns, but they tend to use only a couple. They get so good at their favorites that they hardly ever deviate. Usually because they can't be defended. John Smith single legged his way to multiple world championships and Olympic gold.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by MasterChief


The really great wrestler have a huge assortment of takedowns, but they tend to use only a couple. They get so good at their favorites that they hardly ever deviate. Usually because they can't be defended. John Smith single legged his way to multiple world championships and Olympic gold.

This statement, right here, oh so very true. Wrestlers do have a huge assortmant of great takedowns that are hard to defend. This fact has lead me to be in the guard more times than I cared for when sparring with wrestlers. Not that I mind being in the guard at all, but the fact that it was somewhere were I didn't want to start the match off with and had a very hard time not letting it be that way.

Like I said in another of your post, I really REALLY wish I took it in High School.

[BadgerFu57]

The post was pertinent to high school wrestling, but since this is MMA forum, I just wondered what would you consider the best for use in the street? The problem with a shoot would be the knee to the face..... but I don't know hardly anything. Expert opinions?

[Lost Ronin]

Masterchief has given you some really good advice. Drill the single leg and double leg until you can do it blindfolded, with one hand tied behind your back while balancing yourself on a tightrope (okay, not THAT much but you get the point.)

Seriously though, the most versatile wrestling takedown is the single leg. You can go ultra-low (a personal favorite of mine), you can do the "dive bomber" single, you can do it from a clinch, tap set ups, etc. There is no limits to the single, only your imagination. The double requires more timing, it also commits you more. Now, if you pull off a good double leg takedown during an MMA match or streetfight, you could hurt your opponent really bad. Frank Shamrock knocked out one of his opponents with a nasty double leg takedown during his second championship defense if I'm correct. Thing is, most people do a "step in" double leg which means their knees don't touch the floor (good for streetfights, you don't mess up your knees on concrete.) But for MMA and wrestling, I preferred my "slide double", which started like a single and transitioned into a smooth double leg takedown (Tito Ortiz uses this technique very well, especially in his fight against Frank Shamrock.)

Overall, most wrestlers are good sprawlers. So, you want to perfect your shoots. But at the same time, you do not want to become overly reliant on them. So cross train in Greco Roman Wrestling and perfect your leg snatching from a tie up or clinch. I used leg snatches extensively during my highschool wrestling career. Most folkstyle dudes are not experts in the clinch (be careful of that damn head and arm though, there is a simple defense that most people are unaware of !)

But overall, practice makes perfect. Try to learn as much as possible from the most talented wrestlers on your team. Watch them wrestle, and if you want a real good taste of it, go up against them and get your ass kicked every now and then. Its good for the soul, good luck man.

[arnis007]

I wrestled in high school with a record of 124-12-0. I averged seven takedowns a match. the single is good but there are dozens of types of single legs, I used a system called the inside step, as well as specialized takedowns, you can always lead with the same leg as you shoot reach for the back of your opponents leg with your forehead in his armpit head up, right here posture is every thing (bone is stronger than muscle this is were phsycis comes in)now if he pulls the leg back (rember your stepping to the inside)it will pull down on your knee , head up , come up on your other leg pivoting usually in a circle. If he spawls your head will pop through between his arm and his ribs\hips go into a high crotch(lift), if when you shoot he pulls the leg back too quickly, with the inside hand make ahook motion, grabbing his opposite leg, your head being straight it will usually be up in his chest,on this one you can also swich to a double leg. thus with the same movements, the same lead leg, you have four diffrent takedowns a inside single, high-C(high crotch), opposite leg single, and the oposite double. this is good if your barley learning it gives you a lot of options with the same movements your opponent will dictate which one to do by his reaction, many olympic champions have used this system. great for young kid as well. I've coached three jr. state champions and one jr. national champion, a few years back. this is what I taught them. If your intrested try to find the granby video series the that teaches the rolls granby and the shrug they have a takedown series with the inside step.

[Kendall]

Re: Wrestling Takedowns

Originally posted by BadgerFu57
I have trained for BJJ for a few months and I am on the wrestling team in high school. Right now we are just doing pre-season, but I stay late and grapple a bit. Wrestlers have excellent takedowns and takedown defense, one thing I didn't get much of in BJJ.

Anyone have any favorite takedowns or suggestions as to how to be a better stand-up grappler?

Lucky you, I wish I could go back and wrestle in H/S. Randy Couture & Matt Lindland has seminars that go around the country - Team Quest. They had one in NJ. I also recommend learning some Greco-Roman - read this: http://www.themat.com/pressbox/pressdetail.asp?aid=2236

Randy & Matt have modified the trad. tie-ups w. punches, clinches, takedowns. Randy is a 4 time Nationals Greco-Roman & UFC Champ and Matt is a silver medalist on the Olympics for wrestling as well as the former middleweight UFC Champ. What you learn from them in one day seminar is incredible. Add that to BJJ, what an arsenal!

[IPON]

If you were to use the guard in a wrestling match...it would be a defensive pin, you are correct the point is not to look at the lights.

Regarding the best takedown, honestly, it depends, not so much on the skill sometime as genetics, what is your weight class. The heavier weight classes (170 up) tend to lock up and unless you are fast you can easily get caught with a counter move. So you should know your speed and strength. Even with good upper body strength don't lock up just to lock up control the neck with forearm in the chest to throw the oppent off balance a work a move. I have generally used a high crotch into a single from this piont one and on the neck the other on the tricep. Also, I think that the fireman carry is very under utilized as a takedown. Now, if you are fast shoot for the single or sigle to double.

Regarding street application I can assure you that there is no best take down from the street......you don't want to go to the street ....period. It does happen in fights but generally it is not somthing you want to initaite. Remember, you train on a mat concrete and asphalt is different. You will get cut and or bruised, the breakfalls you lear (or should learn) are not to prevent injury they are to lesson the extent of injury/shock and keep you in the fight.

[Nutz]

For standup grappling, do a search for Dumog.