Dim mak

[Thai Bri]

Re: ...

Originally posted by Nick
I went to one of Dillman's seminars and there was a lot of hitting pressure points to make people pass out. That stuff worked -- I dunno about killing your opponent with the stuff, though.

Later...

I've heard about these seminars. Doesn't he get people to stand in a line without defending themselevs, whilst he smacks each one on the chin? Then they are knocked out. Surprize surprize. My 7 year old kid could knock someone out like that, honestly.

I'm more interested in the claims he has made about knocking people out without touching them. He has "proven2 it on his students, he has sold eseminar places to people on the strength of the claim, but he has then refused to demonstrate it on them as it is "too dangerous".

Bull shit.

[mjohnson]

ok

Originally posted by Benjamin Dover
mjohnson,

I was trying to talk in layman's terms with regards to vagal stimulation and heart rate. I am an Emerg Physician so here is the medical account of the 10th cranial nerve (Vagus) and heart rate:

Well I guess I will let it slide THIS time. I had no clue, where do you work at?

[Nick]

...

Thai Bri:

He claimed to have knocked out a kickboxer with them. I can only assume while he was sparring with him/her.

Dillman was actually pretty proficient and could probably use it in a one-on-one fight -- most of the others weren't as good though.

And he and this other goofball did a thing where they pointed at somebody, made weird sounds and then they fell down. Heh heh.

Later...

[Benjamin Dover]

Chris Davis 200,

Indeed - i am talking about focusing a whole body strike though a single point on the chest - the result is bone breakage and trauma to internal organs. Is it a 'death touch' most certainly can be. And was used by Guo Yun Shen of hsing i to kill many people.

I don't think you understand....massive trauma is not the idea of a pressure point. Traumatic chest injury, where there is cardiac and pulmonary interruption would kill 99.8% of the population. In fact, trauma to practically any other part of the body would kill a lot of people. Yeah, of course you can kill someone causing massive trauma....thanks for clarifying that point Sherlock. Anyway, I seriously doubt that you personally can kill an actively resisting opponent by crushing their rib cage...to do enough damage to the individual's heart and lungs and kill them. As an ER Physician the only chest trauma that I have seen that has killed people is motor vehicle accidents (MVA). I doubt your claim of being able to crush someone's chest with the same amount of force as an MVA. Unless you fight 10 year old children or a really crappy fighter.

I do BELIEVE that we are on a thread talking about DIM MAK!!! Dim Mak, also know as Death Touch, is the ancient martial art of striking vital points of an opponent's body. These strikes are engineered to cause “knock-out”, death or delayed reaction in the opponent.

Hey, if you can cause enough damage to crush a person's rib cage and lungs while also interrupting the electrcal impulses to the heart why don't you just reach into the chest and pull their heart out? Do you also damage an individual's verterbrae and spinal cord with your awesome power? I would love to see your death strike, LOL!!!

[chris davis 200]

No i dont think you understand ....

don't think you understand....massive trauma is not the idea of a pressure point.

I do BELIEVE that we are on a thread talking about DIM MAK!!! Dim Mak, also know as Death Touch, is the ancient martial art of striking vital points of an opponent's body.

Here is the misconception made by movies etc. Dim Mak (hardley ever termed as such) is about killing strikes. NOT soley about pressure point hitting. SO i dont think YOU understand - we are talking about dim mak - NOT pressure point fighting!

These strikes are engineered to cause “knock-out”, death or delayed reaction in the opponent.

No they are not to cause knock out. they are to cause DEATH hence 'DEATH touch'

Vital point striking is somthing different and is in most Martial arts. Kyusho jutsu etc.

Anyway, I seriously doubt that you personally can kill an actively resisting opponent by crushing their rib cage...to do enough damage to the individual's heart and lungs and kill them.

Ok!!!! when did i say that you would crush someones rib cage - anyone? anyone? no - i didnt!!!

I said that these strikes cause damage to the breast bone, cracking etc. My breast bone was cracked by a strike during a demonstration when i had padding on!! I am still recovering a year later, and it was not a full power strike

The mechanics are that the opponent is advancing when you advance on them with the opposing force - thus increasing the pressure applied through your strike by the weight of the opponent - that is a whole load of pressure focused through a small area.

This sort of 'heart strike' focuses all of the striking force into that area of the organ, not going to go into physics here but it has to do with resinance and not impact, and pushing the breast bone backwards, compressing the chest area.

Surely this is the case in heart massage and you are able to achive this from applied pressure in one direction. if the patient was coming back up at you and you applied equal pressure it would be increased substancially.

I doubt your claim of being able to crush someone's chest with the same amount of force as an MVA. Unless you fight 10 year old children or a really crappy fighter.

I too would doubt it - but then again i didnt say that i could, did i, you fool!

I am not saying that anyone could crush someones ribcage with a strike, but the physical attribute of this strike is like running into a battering ram that is coming towards you. it will cause problems for your chest!

Do you also damage an individual's verterbrae and spinal cord with your awesome power?

Yes there are strikes and breaks to the spine in many systems. ba gua uses spinal breaks, usually from throws and locks, throwing a person onto their head etc, dropping them onto the knee, elbowing to the spine, imobilising the head and twisting the body to snap the kneck. But this is not Dim mak.

Hows about just for a change you listen, think, then respond, not just get onto your ' i work in a hospital i knowEVERYTHING' stool and start making up shite that people dont say!

Just a sudjestion.

[eXcessiveForce]

what you are referring to is a cardial stun. I have seen it happen 2 times by a strike to the chest. I have seen it once from a strike to the head.

By striking the vagus nerve you can interupt the beating of the heart. (verified by a cardiologist)

By striking the chest with a good deal of force it can disrupt the normal heart beat or stop it all together. (verified by cardiologist)
This strike does not need to be enough to break bones. Even one of those bean bags the police shoot at people to stun them can have sufficient force to stop the heart if it hits in the proper area.

Dim Mak deals with many areas. One such delayed death strike is supposed to cause the kidneys to shut down. If you kidneys shut down without medical intervention you will die.
If you rupture the liver you will probably die.
If you rupture the spleen you will probably die.
If you cause the brain to swell you could die or at least go blind.

Dim mak isn't about tapping someone and they die. Some people can be tapped and they pass out but Dim Mak deals with full power strikes to targets based on the time of day and natural body cycles. Some of the points lie over nerve or muscle connection points and can cause pain, dislocation, loss of motor function, mental stun, or death.

Not all points do that and Dim Mak actually has a series of hits required to do many of the things that they claim can be done.

I have personally been paralyzed from a strike to the knee. It lasted about 30 seconds to a minute. I could not move my leg or much of my body but ended up laying there on the floor until i started to regain control of my legs.

I have also seen people knocked out by a strike to the vagus nerve (brachial plexus origin)

I have seen mental stuns from strikes to the common peroneal, tibial point, mandibular angle, femoral point, and superficial peroneal.

I have seen some of the points listed in dim mak hit on accident with different results.

One person hit a point on their leg and passed out.
One person hit a point on the knee and passed out
One person hit in on the upper back lost arm and leg function for about 1 minute.
etc.

some of the points work, but it is not magical. nor is dim mak simply poking people and killing them. I have not seen anything except hollywood movies the even portray it as such. Except maybe ashida kim


If you want to know get the books on dim mak and find somebody willing to let you try it on them. I have the books but have not yet found anyone who will let me try it on them. I have no idea if you can kill by hiting the combinations they suggest but the offer stands. I will be glad to try it on you and see.
Ryan the offer is still open but now you would have to come to missouri

[Thai Bri]

You're full of shit (verified by cardiologist).

[Benjamin Dover]

Pretty well any type of strike can disrupt a person's heart beat (verified by a cardiologist, LOL!!!). But, let's talk about the avg person. 1 strong strike to a 25 y/o's chest would not, in 99.9% of the population, kill him/her.

Hmmm....a "cardial stun"... LOL!!!,

I have seen it once from a strike to the head.

.

Well what the hell happened in that situation? Was the head partially severed? A strike to the head causing the heart to stop?!?!?! Possible but highly unlikely. Was this verified by a cardiologist?!?!

Dim Mak deals with full power strikes to targets based on the time of day and natural body cycles

Does this mean that in the Daytime a Dim Mak practitioner will use different strikes as opposed to the evening, LOL!!!

If you kidneys shut down without medical intervention you will die.

If you rupture the liver you will probably die.

If you rupture the spleen you will probably die.

If you cause the brain to swell you could die or at least go blind

This is too hilarious. Name me an organ when ruptured will not kill you. Thanks for the update. Oh...by the way...if your brain was swelling going blind would be the least of your concerns. Hey, self abuse will also make you go blind.

Now to lay into Chris Davis 200...

My breast bone was cracked by a strike during a demonstration when i had padding on!!

2 words....DRINK MILK!!!

This sort of 'heart strike' focuses all of the striking force into that area of the organ, not going to go into physics here but it has to do with resinance and not impact, and pushing the breast bone backwards, compressing the chest area.

Well...why don't these Dim Mak practitioners use resonance and break the 4th brick in a 10 brick stack, LOL!!! The theory of resonance sounds good....but....the human body is designed is dissipate blows and thus spread out the force of impact throughout the body. Especially from the front. That's why you have this strong bony structure called the rib cage.

[eXcessiveForce]

The situation was the guy was hit by a jump spin heel kick to the head and went down. Not breathing and no pulse. The medical team there got him breathing agian after about a minute. CPR was used. Then he was rushed by ambulance on a back board to a local hospital.

The other was a side kick to the chest and moderate power. To person dropped. Paddles where used on that one.

don't get me wrong i'm not saying I believe in Dim Mak, I don't know it just have a few books about it.

And yes different parts of the day in dim mak means different strikes and different combinations as I understand it.

[mjohnson]

?

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce
The situation was the guy was hit by a jump spin heel kick to the head and went down. Not breathing and no pulse. The medical team there got him breathing agian after about a minute. CPR was used. Then he was rushed by ambulance on a back board to a local hospital.

So is he dead? A kick to the head can cause you to not breath or have respirations. And even then, with the right equipment and adequate CPR, you can get a pulse back. Even then they probably wont live a couple of days.

The other was a side kick to the chest and moderate power. To person dropped. Paddles where used on that one.

Internal or External? LOL

don't get me wrong i'm not saying I believe in Dim Mak, I don't know it just have a few books about it.

ok?

And yes different parts of the day in dim mak means different strikes and different combinations as I understand it.

Are you serious? So at night you would use a hammer fist, and during the day a left hook right? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[eXcessiveForce]

yeah that's what I gather, but I think it is more about the places you hit rather than the technique. They get all into cycles of the body. And everything is associated to the accupuncture meridians and their elememt earth, wind, fire, water, metal(wood)

And yes both of the people lived as far as I know. External paddles. It was quite exciting both times.

I actually had talked to the guy who was hit in the head earlier in the day. It was his first competiton. He was very excitied. The person he went up against was no representing their true rank and had an enormous advantage on him. He was hit with a jump spin heel kick to the head. I cannot recall if he was hit in the back of the head or the face though, It was almost 20 years ago and some of the less important details are a bit foggy now.

I also had a friend when I was in fourth grade who started taking TKD and this little school that I was at. (not a very good school for any art) when it can time for sparring he did pretty good He was there a couple months. Then his dead (a cardiologist by the way) showed up during a sparring session. He totally freaked out that we were (point sparring) and hitting the chest. He argued with the instructor and told him that even the light hits could stop the heart. He ended up pulling his son out of class and he never came back.


now none of that was dim mak it was all accidents but some of them do reflect ideas put forth by dim mak.

The only way to talk intelligently about it is to study it, or at least get a book and look at what they are trying to put forth. I have 3 books on it. Much of it looks like tai chi and accupuncture stuff.
Then there are sections about all the "points" and what they do and when they should be struck and in what order. There are usually set up points that are struck before the main point is hit as far as I can tell.

anyway good luck with the thread, if anyone actually finds somebody that claims to know it and will be traveling close to missouri let me know I'd be happy to go check into it.

[chris davis 200]

2 words....DRINK MILK!!!

Two more words! DICK HEAD!

Well...why don't these Dim Mak practitioners use resonance and break the 4th brick in a 10 brick stack, LOL!!!

Because that is not posible.

the human body is designed is dissipate blows and thus spread out the force of impact throughout the body.

Interesting, so if i throw a brick a someones chest i wont damage them - cause their body is designed to disapate that force.

O .......... K!!

So you seem to know your stuff about medical theory, but practical physics?? now there is a different story!

anyways, keep up the good work in ER - im sure if someone walks in with a broken breast bone you will send them packing telling them "That aint possible pal, i know it all!"

[Benjamin Dover]

Chris Davis 200,

So what is it exactly about physics that you are talking about???

This sort of 'heart strike' focuses all of the striking force into that area of the organ, not going to go into physics here but it has to do with resinance and not impact, and pushing the breast bone backwards, compressing the chest area.

Maybe if you actually took physics you will see that everything that you said about resonance does not apply. Here is the dummies version of resonance:

The quality or condition of being resonant: words that had resonance throughout his life.
Richness or significance, especially in evoking an association or strong emotion: “It is home and family that give resonance... to life” (George Gilder). “Israel, gateway to Mecca, is of course a land of religious resonance and geopolitical significance” (James Wolcott).
Physics. The increase in amplitude of oscillation of an electric or mechanical system exposed to a periodic force whose frequency is equal or very close to the natural undamped frequency of the system.
Physics. A subatomic particle lasting too short a time to be observed directly. The existence of such particles is usually inferred from a peak in the energy distribution of its decay products.
Acoustics. Intensification and prolongation of sound, especially of a musical tone, produced by sympathetic vibration.
Linguistics. Intensification of vocal tones during articulation, as by the air cavities of the mouth and nasal passages.
Medicine. The sound produced by diagnostic percussion of the normal chest.
Chemistry. The property of a compound having simultaneously the characteristics of two or more structural forms that differ only in the distribution of electrons. Such compounds are highly stable and cannot be properly represented by a single structural formula

It is too easy to break the rib cage by throwing a brick at it. But, to say, "When I throw this brick at your chest I will ensure that the impact will focus only on the heart."

LOL, that's hilarious. You should brush up on your practical physics. Did you take an intro course? Hey, while you read up have a glass of milk or two.

[chris davis 200]

ha!

Good to see you can use Dictionary.com!!

It is too easy to break the rib cage by throwing a brick at it. But, to say, "When I throw this brick at your chest I will ensure that the impact will focus only on the heart."

My point on physics was refering to your inability to believe that one strike could damage the breast bone/ ribcage!

It is too easy to break the rib cage by throwing a brick at it

So therefor you have just admitted that a strike applied with equal force over a similar surface area could EASILY BREAK THE RIB CAGE. So judgeing by your medical opinion of the EASE at which this would happen, less force would Probably do some damage also.

The resonance i am referning to when i talk about striking refers to:

- The structured alignment behind the striking object resonating due to the release of elastic potential energy from the aligned structure and the recoil of the vibrational & Trnslational kinetic energy back into the aligned structure. Skeletal / tendon structure, not musculature.

- the resonance of the vibrational & Translational kinetic energy entering the target object, passing through or entering the region of the heart, then passing out the other side.

- The resulting effect of the vibrational & Translational kinetic energy on structures around the heart such as nervous tissue.

- the resulting cardiac arrest or interuption due to the effect of the energy disrupting the function of said structures.

Physics. The increase in amplitude of oscillation of an electric or mechanical system exposed to a periodic force whose frequency is equal or very close to the natural undamped frequency of the system.

The increase in amplitute of oscillation of a structure due to a force excerted on that structure.

This could also explain the striking efficiency of heart strikes

- a vibration of large amplitude produced by a relatively small vibration near the same frequency of vibration as the natural frequency of the resonating system

cheers pal.

PS - slight milk obsession going on there man!!

[eXcessiveForce]

he's lactating, don't pick on him.