Gracie's in pride

[Strider]

Just wondering about the Gracies vs. Sakuraba. I heard this guy actually beat alot of the Gracies? Has he beaten Renzo Gracie yet? From what I have heard Renzo Gracie is supposed to be the top fighter out of the Gracies.

2nd. Who's your most favorite Gracie fighter from the family?

[Great Sage]

Strider,

Where exactly have you been, bro?... Sak's beaten several Gracies, but I'm just not sure about their names anymore—most start with the letter "R."

Anyway, last time I checked, Rickson was the top Gracie fighter.

[Sean Dempsey]

Saku:
Win Royler Gracie TKO (Referee Stoppage from a Kimura) 13:16 2 Pride 8 11/21/1999

Win Royce Gracie TKO (Corner Threw in the Towel) 15:00 6 Pride: Grand Prix 2000 Final Round 5/1/2000 (this fight went 1 hour and 45 minutes...)

Win Renzo Gracie TKO (Referee Stoppage from Kimura) 9:42 2 Pride 10: Return of the Warriors 8/27/2000

Win Ryan Gracie Decision 10:00 1 Pride 12: Cold Fury 12/23/2000

Those are the only ones I know of.

[Turing]

Rickson vs. Sak

Sakuraba vs. Rickson Gracie. What do you guys all think?

[Sean Dempsey]

I think Rickson.

Royce, Renzo, Royler, Ryan... They all pale compared to Rickson.

I believe Royce was a 3rd degree black belt when he fought Sakuraba, and Rickson is a 7th.

Renzo was a 3rd, Royler was a 5th, and Ryan I have no idea.

Royce went nearly *2 hours* against Sakuraba. And Rickson is a far superior fighter to Royce.

I doubt Rickson is gonna fight again, not after Rockson died.

[IPON]

Sean-who is Rockson....what happened

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Rockson was his eldest son. He died in a motorcycle accident I believe.

[Strider]

correction

instead of renzo i meant ryan gracie. So out of all the Gracies he did reasonably well. Losing by decision.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Actually, Ryan didn't do that well. Don't be fooled by length of fights or how it ended. Renzo was the only one who was competitive with Sakuraba, but even so, he was controlled too. Royce was good too, but he also got controlled and almost kneebarred. Ryan got totally dominated. Royler also got dominated, that fight shouldn't have happened due to the big weight difference. I actually thing Royler is the best one of the lot but he also happens to be the smallest.

I would be interested to see Wallid Ismael fight Sakuraba.

Rickson might be the best Gracie but as we've talked about endlessly before, he didn't step up even when he was still fighting and take on a top fighter. If he had fought against Sakuraba, Frank Shamrock, Mach Sakurai, or someone in their class then we could assess where he stands. There are no ifs and he doesn't deserve to have us assume he would beat any of these guys since he avoided them. Hell, I'm not sure he would have even beaten the young Akira Shoji.

The degree of black belt Rickson is has to do with how many years he has been teaching. Joe Moreira is a higher degree black belt than Rickson but that doesn't mean that he is one of the greatest black belts.

[Sean Dempsey]

e doesn't deserve to have us assume he would beat any of these guys

Nor does he deserve to have us assume he would lose.

[NHBMARK1]

The Gracie's may be great, but they need to just shut the f*** up & fight. You need all these special rules to get a Gracie. It's bullshit!

I never hear anything from the Couture camp that they need a no time limit match or whatever.

As far as Rickson goes.
Until he fights a top guy in his weight class, I'm sorry he's bullshit too.
If Rickson beats a Silva in Pride or cro cop without specal rules, then he'll get my vote as top fighter.

ps.
I'm sure I'm going to piss off alot of Gracie disiples with those comments. Sorry those are my feelings people.
Enjoy the weekend,

[Thai Bri]

Asking for things such as "no time limit" isn't really asking for special rules. They are merely asking for less rules. Think about it.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Originally posted by NHBMARK1
The Gracie's may be great, but they need to just shut the f*** up & fight. You need all these special rules to get a Gracie. It's bullshit!

How the hell is asking for no time limit and no refere stopage concidered asking for special rules?

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK (or in this case type) YOUNG GRASSHOPPER!!!!!

[Mr. Miyagi]

As a bjj and Gracie fan, I always root for the Gracies that I like, Renzo, Royler, Royce, and Rickson. Renzo and Royler have fought several times without special rules and haven't made excuses or complained if they lost or drew.
NTL is a special rule. Holding guard for three hours and then getting a sub makes for bad business. There are people watching these shows. It is also an excuse for not fighting. What kind of fighter needs hours to "wait for his opponent to make a mistake"? Against the best fighters out there right now I don't think they could do it either.
NTL wouldn't matter against someone like Silva or Crocop who would destroy any of those Gracies way before the time limit anyway. They got their special rules against Sakuraba, and still lost handily. Rickson was scared to tarnish his 500000-0 record and didn't step up.
Royce and Rickson have claimed they want less rules but do they really want some stronger fighter to elbow them and kick them when they're down?
One fight I think Rickson might be able to pull off is Noguiera. I think he would beat him.
I know some of you look up to your teachers and their teachers but lets be realistic here.
Overall, Bustamante is doing a better job going out and representing bjj than the Gracies. He could beat any of them in a mma fight too. I wish he was involved with this show, too bad he got greedy with the UFC.

[Mr. Heel Hook]

Pretty bold statement, Mr Miyagi.