Would Bruce Lee win UFC fights had he been still alive and willing to compete?

[MuayThaiFighter]

Actually, it makes complete sense. There are basically 2 schools of thought concerning JKD, which ultimately is a source of all the endless debates:

1. JKD is a Philosophy
2. JKD is an actual MA with specific technique (in fact early criticisms of JKD while bruce was alive was that in was not a true MA due to its lack of weapons training)

Now the Philosophy of JKD no one can argue. However, when Lee started he was a wing chun practitioner From Seattle, LA and Oakland what he taught his Jun Fan gung fu to JKD was basically an incomplete form or "modified" of wingchun. Now there is a type of wing chun called "modified wing chun" but that does not apply to Lee or JKD. Lee "Modified" the wing chun that learned, basically filling in the gaps he had in training.

Now the next part I can only give my opinions, others will disagree (opinions are like assholes ...everyone has one). Lee was trying to find his way in MA, WC was his vehicle. In order to teach the masses the philosophy he had to be able to demonstrate, otherwise he would be one of the esoteric grandmasters that he himself complained about. What he was his modified version of wing chun or JKD. This JKD changed as he changed. The reason he did not want to name the style nor did he want the name used is because the point was not the technique per se it was the philosophy behind it...the MA style did not matter. If you study Goju ryu fine......apply these principles to your Goju ryu and you will be a better practioner.

Now everyone wants to call their style JKD for profit. They either strictly hold onto what was taught in LA Seattle or Oakland which is opposite to the goal of JKD or they have some other MMa format which has nothing to do what Lee taught. Personally, I wish people would stop disrespecting Lee and leave the name alone.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents hope it was helpful

I understand what you are saying and myself have read everything about Bruce Lee since I'm a big fan of his movies.

My point was just because a martial arts is a modified version of another art doesn't make it any less of a martial arts.Most styles were copied from some other martial arts does that mean most of them are not considered a martial arts? I think not.I would say what makes one less of a martial arts is what the style teaches,if it teaches unrealistic self-defense however doesn't mean it's not a martial arts.How unrealistic I believe karate,kung fu,tkd etc.are I know they're still a form of martial arts.

1. JKD is a Philosophy

I agree but it still is a martial arts.

2. JKD is an actual MA with specific technique (in fact early criticisms of JKD while bruce was alive was that in was not a true MA due to its lack of weapons training)

This I disagree with,just because it lacks weapons training doesn't mean it's not a martial arts but back then I guess they were ignorant in this aspect.

Now the Philosophy of JKD no one can argue. However, when Lee started he was a wing chun practitioner From Seattle, LA and Oakland what he taught his Jun Fan gung fu to JKD was basically an incomplete form or "modified" of wingchun. Now there is a type of wing chun called "modified wing chun" but that does not apply to Lee or JKD. Lee "Modified" the wing chun that learned, basically filling in the gaps he had in training.

I won't argue the fact that he started off as a Wing Chun practitioner,because having studied about Bruce I know this to be true.However how could he teach Juan Fan Gung Fu to JKD ,if he's the one who invented JKD?


I also agree that JKD was a modified version of wing chun as I never said it wasn't I was just argueing the fact that Sherwinc said it's not considered a martial arts. Just because it's a modified version doesn't mean it's not a martial arts.Is this not true? If being modified means it's not a martial arts then I guess Jujutisu isn't a martial arts either since it's a modified version of Judo,if I am correct.I personally consider both judo and jujitsu martial arts.

Now the next part I can only give my opinions, others will disagree (opinions are like assholes ...everyone has one). Lee was trying to find his way in MA, WC was his vehicle. In order to teach the masses the philosophy he had to be able to demonstrate, otherwise he would be one of the esoteric grandmasters that he himself complained about. What he was his modified version of wing chun or JKD. This JKD changed as he changed. The reason he did not want to name the style nor did he want the name used is because the point was not the technique per se it was the philosophy behind it...the MA style did not matter.

I can't argue this because this too I know is true.

Now everyone wants to call their style JKD for profit. They either strictly hold onto what was taught in LA Seattle or Oakland which is opposite to the goal of JKD or they have some other MMa format which has nothing to do what Lee taught. Personally, I wish people would stop disrespecting Lee and leave the name alone.

I really doubt this,I don't think everyone wants to call their style JKD after all I don't think there are many JKD schools around any more at least not here in B.C. I only know of one here.

[Thai Bri]

Are you still here?

[koto_ryu]

You have to think though, if Bruce Lee was going to fight in the UFC, chances are he wouldn't just go in there with his old knowledge. He would definitely get in a lot of grappling training and add some MT to the mix, and with his dedication to the martial arts and physical fitness, he would do extremely well.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Bruce Lee in MMA

I believe that Bruce Lee would thrive in MMA competition. His physical abilities were beyond compare, but what set his apart was the ability to adapt to any situation and any fighter he was faced with. This thinking (along with the concept that no one style was undefeatable) put him light years ahaid of everyone else in the styalized world of martial arts in the 60's and 70's. This is now the base thinking for any MMA fighter. In the early 90"s, bjj ruled because no one had been exposed to it. Fighters were walking into triangle chokes and other submissions because they hadn't seen them before. Now, 10 plus years later, every MMA fighter knows them and even bjj black belts train in other things to be successful. One diminsional fighters are not successful for very long. Bruce Lee pioneered this way of thinking. He sought out instruction from lots of different martial artists, including a few of my instructors (George Dillman, Wally Jay, ect.)

[m.artist]

I believe that Bruce Lee would thrive in MMA competition. His physical abilities were beyond compare, but what set his apart was the ability to adapt to any situation and any fighter he was faced with. This thinking (along with the concept that no one style was undefeatable) put him light years ahaid of everyone else in the styalized world of martial arts in the 60's and 70's. This is now the base thinking for any MMA fighter. In the early 90"s, bjj ruled because no one had been exposed to it. Fighters were walking into triangle chokes and other submissions because they hadn't seen them before. Now, 10 plus years later, every MMA fighter knows them and even bjj black belts train in other things to be successful. One diminsional fighters are not successful for very long. Bruce Lee pioneered this way of thinking. He sought out instruction from lots of different martial artists, including a few of my instructors (George Dillman, Wally Jay, ect.)

what did he go to George Dilliman for?

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Bruce Lee training with George Dillman

From what i've been told by people and verified to my satisfaction, (having never met Bruce Lee myself) Bruce routinely trained with George Dillman in the late 60's and visited Goerges schools in the Northeast, Maryland and Pennsylvania area. George Dillman is also is credited with teaching Bruce Lee the nunchucks. Please check it out for yourself- Black Belt Magazine Aug or Oct of last year. It was the issue on the 30th anniversary of Bruce Lee's death. One of the couple of interviews is with George Dillman. I want to stress the fact that George Dillman guards his friendship with Bruce Lee very closely and doesn't speak of it publicly, out of respect, but as a member of DKI, I had the oppertunity to go to a few of George Dillmans camps in Reading, PA (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR ANY MA) and saw a lot of photos that were never published and some letters written by Bruce to George when Bruce was doing movie work in Hong Kong. Mahalo

[HtTKar]

Isnt' the real question.
If babe ruth were alive today...would he be the greatest?

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Rediculus comparison.

If Babe Ruth was avile today, he'd be in prison. The Yankees wouldn't be able to cover up the stuff they did back then.

[HtTKar]

The comparison was trying to bring someone back from the dead.
Someone that was great at the time, when the rules were different, and putting them in present day situations.

Look at most professional football players, when football started out. They were all small (by comparison), but fast, and didnt wear much pads. Different situation.

Or basketball, back before dunking was allowed. Would the great atheletes of that time be able to compete with the atheletes of today?

It doesnt matter. Noone will be able to prove anybody right, or wrong. Hence 14 pages of rambles.

[m.artist]

From what i've been told by people and verified to my satisfaction, (having never met Bruce Lee myself) Bruce routinely trained with George Dillman in the late 60's and visited Goerges schools in the Northeast, Maryland and Pennsylvania area. George Dillman is also is credited with teaching Bruce Lee the nunchucks. Please check it out for yourself- Black Belt Magazine Aug or Oct of last year. It was the issue on the 30th anniversary of Bruce Lee's death. One of the couple of interviews is with George Dillman. I want to stress the fact that George Dillman guards his friendship with Bruce Lee very closely and doesn't speak of it publicly, out of respect, but as a member of DKI, I had the oppertunity to go to a few of George Dillmans camps in Reading, PA (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR ANY MA) and saw a lot of photos that were never published and some letters written by Bruce to George when Bruce was doing movie work in Hong Kong. Mahalo

So just the chucks huh? Is that all he went to Dillman for? Im not saying that Dillman isn't good, don't get me wrong, but I just want to make sure Bruce didn't go for the Dim Mak bs that Dillman has been preaching for years.
What I meant was, did he go for certain techniques, were there things that Dillman was exposed to that Bruce wasn't yet? That's what I mean

[Jeremy Lobdell]

The art of stupidity you practice like a Grandmaster

I love to hear from people like you who talk Bruce Lee to death and quote him all the time, then say ignorant stuff that flies in the face of everything he stood for. Maybe you should heed to your own quote or maybe we should get teoghter and I'll show you what that pressure point stuff is all about.

Sorry about that, now that the testosterone has cleared and i can think again, yes I agree that 90% of Dim Mak is bs. It usually entails someone using the name to make money, then teaching vital striking points. Real kyusho jitsu is based entirely on chinese medicine and their acupunture system. All the points, meredians, and affected organs are the same. I'm sure alot of info was exchanged between George Dillman and Bruce Lee. To what exact extent, i'm not sure.

[m.artist]

I love to hear from people like you who talk Bruce Lee to death and quote him all the time, then say ignorant stuff that flies in the face of everything he stood for. Maybe you should heed to your own quote or maybe we should get teoghter and I'll show you what that pressure point stuff is all about.

Sorry about that, now that the testosterone has cleared and i can think again, yes I agree that 90% of Dim Mak is bs. It usually entails someone using the name to make money, then teaching vital striking points. Real kyusho jitsu is based entirely on chinese medicine and their acupunture system. All the points, meredians, and affected organs are the same. I'm sure alot of info was exchanged between George Dillman and Bruce Lee. To what exact extent, i'm not sure.

I certainly hope you weren't referring to me in that top paragraph there.
I haven't quoted him, and i haven't talked him, sure i have a sig, and practice his "way of thinking" so to speak(warriors way, wichita falls tx). And sorry, if you have ever been to bullshido, and seen the news broadcast with dillman, you would know what i mean. And like i said, i wasn't degrading him. I just think Dim Mak is bs

Anywho, i know what kysho jitsu is. Or at least, i know what i've read on it. They have one guy just about every month featured in the budo magazine.
And im sure they exchanged plenty of info, but one thing im sure about, having actually studied bruce lee and his art, bruce didn't waste time with stuff that "might work, might not, depends on the persons weight, height, blood type," or any other type of bs like that. you know what i mean.
peace

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Yes

I certainly hope you weren't referring to me in that top paragraph there.

YES, THE FIRST PARAGRAPH WAS REFERING TO YOU, M.ARTIST.

I haven't quoted him, and i haven't talked him, sure i have a sig, and practice his "way of thinking" so to speak(warriors way, wichita falls tx). And sorry, if you have ever been to bullshido, and seen the news broadcast with dillman, you would know what i mean. And like i said, i wasn't degrading him. I just think Dim Mak is bs

YOU QUOTE HIM (BRUCE LEE) AT THE END OF ALL YOUR POSTINGS. IF ALL YOU DO IS READ MAGAZINES AND REGURGITATE OTHER PEOPLES INFO ON FORUMS, THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KONW, DO YOU. HERES A QUOTE FOR YOU,"GEORGE DILLMAN HAS PROBABLY DONE MORE FOR TRADIDIONAL MARTIAL ARTS THAN ANYONE ELSE ALIVE" BLACKBELT MAGAZINE.

I ALSO TRAIN IN JEET KUNE DO AT JKD UNLIMITED UNDER BURTON RICHARDSON, HONOLULU HAWAII.

Anywho, i know what kysho jitsu is. Or at least, i know what i've read on it. They have one guy just about every month featured in the budo magazine.
And im sure they exchanged plenty of info, but one thing im sure about, having actually studied bruce lee and his art, bruce didn't waste time with stuff that "might work, might not, depends on the persons weight, height, blood type," or any other type of bs like that. you know what i mean.
peace

I'LL HAPPILY ADMITT THAT DKI HAS MORE THAT ITS FAIR SHARE OF "PRESSURE POINT GEEKS" WHO BELIEVE THAT IT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO KNOW TO DEFEND YOURSELF. I PERSONALLY USE THE PARTS OF IT THAT WORK FOR ME AND HAVE DISREGARDED THE REST. AND NO, THINGS LIKE HEIGHT, WEIGHT, OR ANY OTHER FACTOR DON'T MATTER.

I APPRECIATE THE POINTS THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE AND ENJOY DEBATING SOMEONE WITH DIFFERENT VIEWS, BUT COMMON SENSE SHOULD TELL YOU THAT IF YOU HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF, THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT. ANYONE WHO WOULD DISMISS SOMETHING OUT OF HAND WITHOUT AT LEAST TRYING IT THEMSELVES IS FOOLISH AND SHORT SIGHTED AT BEST.
AT LEAST YOU TRAIN AT A BAD ASS, VERY LEGITIMATE SCHOOL! NO MCDOJOS ALLOWED!
I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING BACK FROM YOU ON THIS SUBJECT.

[JohnnyS]

Jeremy,
Please turn off the CAPS LOCK. It's considered the same as shouting and as such is rude. Plus, it's also harder to read.

Thanks,
John

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Caps lock

That was the first time i've posted in all caps, for the exact reasons you listed. Mahalo, Jeremy