Every trained with ...

[chris davis 200]

Hi All,

Seeing as all that seems to be going on here is Style Vrs Style sh!te i am jumping to a huge assumption here and thinking that most here have sparred with high level practitioners from other styles.

so lets hear your experiences.

I am not talking about slating other styles based on kicking the piss outta a novice.

Just your experiences with other styles and what you thought the good and bad points were.

Cheers
Chris

[chris davis 200]

I will start you off!

I sparred with an ex powerlifter that was also highly skilled in Wing chun. It was full contact and we had head gear.

I strictly stuck to hsing I and we had some very good exchanges.

I threw him quite alot and attacked from the sides. He had excellent trapping and very fast hands. He was also a powerful puncher (not supprising bearing in mind he is huge!).

Good points - powerful punching and excellent sensitivity, with fast trapping.

Bad points - couldnt really deal with being run over by a Hsing I stylist! and was very open to throws.

Next.

Cheers
Chris

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Sparred with Pentjak Silat fighter, he kept trying to sweep me which didn't work at all, I made a dropkick ( he was lying on the ground to make the sweep) to the solar plexus ( didn't hit him) and he stopped

Sparred wit a kick/thaiboxer, I wanted to sweep him because his feet were to close together but luckely for him he was to close to the wall and would have banged his head if I did

Sparred a Kung fu guy, who fooled my student with the flashy hands, I did the same flashy handmovements to hide my normal Karate techniques which were way to fast for him to catch

[M@T]

Originally posted by Toudiyama[NL]


Sparred wit a kick/thaiboxer, I wanted to sweep him because his feet were to close together but luckely for him he was to close to the wall and would have banged his head if I did

Yes, the Thai stance puts the legs very close together. This is coz we block most kicks with our shins and the lower the stance the longer it takes to get the legs up to block the kicks.

I'm fairly the Thai wouldnt have just stodd there and let you sweep him

[Great Sage]

Hmm... Where to start.

vs. Muay Thai
Sparred full-contact in ring with MT rules. Attempted leg kicks, but had no affect. I was too wary of elbows and got caught in a clinch.... I got TKO’ed by knees to the rib/arms in around 3 minutes. Trained intensely with the guy afterwards.
Pros: Good defense, great conditioning, lethal & powerful strikes, great combos
Cons: Missed kicks suseptible to attacks since your back is turned.

vs. BJJ
Got tapped out in less than 1 minute...Nuff said.
Pros: Great techniques, body control
Cons: Can’t think of anything right now... See me in another year.

vs. Shotokan Karate
Wiped the floor with the shotokan guy... Unfair fight since he was a white belt and I had over 10 years of martial arts training.
Pros: Can’t say since I didn’t get a good opponent.
Cons: Poor mobility from what I saw.

vs. Wing Tsun
Sparred my sister’s ex-boyfriend, since he offered the challenge. No knees, elbows, finger jabs or groin attacks allowed... I wore Century bag gloves and let him wear my NHB thumbless gloves. Basically outclassed the guy in every aspect of fighting using boxing and MT roundhouse.... Traded techniques afterwards.
Pros: Quick techniques, good parries and angles of attack
Cons: Susceptible to feints, poor mobility in upper & lower body, lacks range.

vs. Monkey Kung
College friend with Monkey Style Kung-fu wanted to spar. I shot right away and choked this monkey. Restarted again, with the same outcome.
Pros: None that I can think of.
Cons: Too many to mention.

vs. Kung-fu Styles: Hungar, Choy Li, Tai Chi & Praying Mantis
Me against my brother. During my younger years, he always beat me... When I got older, I outboxed and outkicked him, and just plain handed his ass to him each and every time. His styles seem to have less effectiveness as I learned to simplify my approach.
Pros: Pretty and intricate.
Cons: Poor mobility, no power, no defense.

[chris davis 200]

good posts guys.

some more from me!

Ba gua Vs MT -
Fought a low level instructor friend of mine, - outcome - 1) thrown onto his shoulder 2) thrown onto his ass 3) very nearly broke his knee

Good points - Tough hand techniques and low kicks.
Bad points - little balance, no defence to strikes to the spine, little defence to stamps to the knees and hips.


Tai chi vs karate (shotokan & Wado Ryu)
Light sparred this guy - outcome - Total domination by me.

Good points - fast
Bad points - segmented movements - block punch blocck punch etc - i was block punch/throw simultaniously.


JuJutsu Vrs Western Boxing
Ex semi pro boxer - Outcome - got punched some, but still won with a good takedown and a choke. also with a standing lock and kidney / spine strikes (controlled)


Althought i say a particular art vrs the other, there is obviously some inter mixing. But i do try to test my abilities within a specific art and not my total ability (cause that wouldnt be fair)

Keep em coming people!

Cheers
Chris

[Szczepankiewicz]

KKJ vs. Judo
Judo Rules
Nagewaza Randori
I have yet to be thrown in randori, in all fairness I haven't gone with anyone good enough to do it. Focused mainly with whitebelts and a few brown.

Newaza Randori:
I've tapped once to an arm lock and many times to getting gassed. I've tapped numerous white, brown and a black belt.
Pro: excellent conditioning, good balance, open minded training
Con: poor ground skills for a grappling art (highly dependent on the individual)

KKJ vs. GJJ
GJJ Rules (grappling only)
I owned the newer students without much effort. Worked hard but gassed against MMAManager and a few others. These guys really knew their stuff and essentially handed me my ass. I gassed way too quickly, but these guys are very solid on the ground.
Pro: Excellent ground work, leverage, conditioning, skill and patience
Con: None yet

KKJ vs. Ed Parker Kenpo
Point Sparring
My buddy the 1Dan in Kenpo owned me in point sparring. He was lightening quick and I am a dullard.
Pro: wicked speed focused on causing damage quickly
con: No full contact training, no grappling

KKJ vs. Shaolin Kung Fu (and Shotokan)
Light grappling
Took 'im down, choked 'im out in about 10 seconds, more yet to come.
Pro: Excellent conditioning, strong striking skills with lower kicks
con: no grappling, no groundwork, no choke defense

None, not a single one of these 'matches' were at all competitive. Each was designed and agreed upon as a friendly training session, so it may not fit into the current thread. Everyone had a great attitude and willingness to learn and share. I haven't fought any 'challange matches' so to speak.

Now that I have the garage mats, we can open things up a bit.



Spanky

[Thai Bri]

Where I trained grappling you would not dare tap out because you were knackered ("gassed").

If you did the instructor would make it his goal in life to torture you on the mat for the rest of the session.

Tut tut tut on you Spanker!

[Szczepankiewicz]

Ok...

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Originally posted by Thai Bri
Where I trained grappling you would not dare tap out because you were knackered ("gassed").

If you did the instructor would make it his goal in life to torture you on the mat for the rest of the session.

Tut tut tut on you Spanker!

If I'm Knackered, I can't do anything anymore, few weeks ago I just couldn't get anymore pushups done, I kept trying but just had no energy left anymore

I would be in serious trouble in your gym

[Thai Bri]

If you cant do any more pushups, and have pushed to the limit, thats ok.

But to tap out when grappling? Just because you're knackered? That is like saying "Kill me, I can't be arsed to push myself".

[ryanhall]

I can't claim to have fought matches any 'high ranking' martial artists from other schools other than some instructors, but here it goes:

Experience with BJJ/Sub Wrestling:
When we start from standing, I can usually score a takedown or throw, and most of the people can't take me down. When we start on the ground, I get tapped out right and left by some of the students due to my possessing only a basic knowledge of submissions and the fact that there are no beginners (less than 10 months experience) in the class. However, I almost always gain better position than the people I roll against (save the instructor)--I just have trouble getting them to tap. I tend to win by bodyslam more than anything else.
Pros: excellent positional skills, good submissions
Cons: very open for 'dirty' tactics (only worthwhile if you can groundfight in the first place, as they won't work well if you can't immediately get position or stop them from doing the same thing back to you)

Rolling/sparring with the instructor:
Instructor: MMA competitor, boxing, college level wrestling (if I heard him correctly)--wouldn't surprise me, considering his skill in the clinch.

I get owned on the ground (damn I'm tired of getting triangled), but can ususally hold my own in the clinch. Only boxed once with him, but he has good hands.

Shotokan karate:
See Spanky's thread on Shotokan for the rundown.
Pros: didn't last long enough to find any other than quick (yet weak) kicks.
Cons: inability to recognize a compromised position, no ground fighting, no takedown defense, poor hand skills, front hand blocking.

Folkstyle wrestling:
Choked out a couple of these guys in friendly matches.
Pros: good grappling clinch work, takedown defense.
Cons: no choke defense, impressive proclivity for flipping over to the stomach

Folkstyle wrestling 'challege' match:
Stupid thing between myself and my sister's boyfriend. He shot and I gillotined him into near unconsciousness before I was asked to stop.

Tae Kwon Do:
It didn't go well for this blackbelt. Hands v hands, he didn't have a chance. Adding kicking didn't help much.
Pros: quick, weak kicks
Cons: poor hands, poor movement, poor defense

Random karate style (unsure of which one it was):
Big guy who had more than 60 lbs on me. He wasn't bad, but he ended up trying to take my head off for some reason. Took a good shot to the ribs, got fed up, and ended up KOing him with a cross.
Pros: size--his ability to hang was more due to his size and strength advantage than it was to anything else.
Cons: no head movement, turned away from a set of punches on a couple of occasions.

I've sparred other boxers and Judo players in training, but I don't think they count here. I'll think of some more later.

[Benjamin Dover]

Well...I have come from a mixed martial arts background. I have a BB in TKD (I was a young kid...I didn't know any better), Kung Fu and JKD. These are all 1st degrees only. I am now a purple belt in BJJ. I have also kickboxed for 2 years. Well...here are some of my experiences.

BB 1st degree in Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu - Good hand work but basic boxing skills combined with kicks were used to easily pass through defenses. Kung Fu dude did extremely well in light contact sparring but in full contact he did not have good timing and distancing. Was unable to parry effectively and was susceptible to fakes and feints. Basic kickboxing destroyed him in his own domain...stand up. Zero grappling skills. This guy was a black belt and never did full contact??? I guess his school teaches him that he is too dangerous to use his moves on full contact, LOL!!!

3rd degree BB in TKD - Rushed him with jabs and then took him to the ground. His superb TKD grappling skills allowed him to survive for about 15 sec. Next match beat him with some basic JKD stand up.

2nd degree BB in Shotokan - This was not your typical Shotokan man. This individual was used to full contact Kyokushin sparring. He is also currently a member of the National Team. Phenomenal Kicks with lots of power and sting, ouch!!! Definitely started by out kicking me...needed to close in and use hands. Turned out he was an excellent puncher, LOL!!! Fortunately he couldn't box when in close. Used a lot of bobbing a weaving to stay on the inside to neutralize the legs. This time I was able to take him down and grapple, whew! He knew absolutely nothing on the ground and it ended in a submission. Subsequent matches I had to shoot for the takedown.

BB 1st degree BJJ - First match I destroyed him. Tried to fight standing up. This individual was learning kickboxing and wanted to try his skills. Next match took me down and proceeded to pummel me on the ground, ouch. Next match - kept my distance and prevented the takedown...I ended up with a KO while he was trying to shoot in. Subsequent grappling matches...I was outclassed.

BB 3rd Aikido - LOL!!! What can I say. This guy was more brutal than Kung Fu boy. He kept on trying to pull off all kinds of garbage that would only work on some inexperienced fighter. Tried to make excuses why his crap didn't work in a full contact venue. I sent in one of my senior white belts and Aikido boy was moped up all over the place. Aikido...what a joke!!!

1st Degree Hapkido - Ok stand up but real crappy ground. I couldn't believe it when this guy said he has been grappling for 2 years?!?!?! I think his instructor must have picked up grappling from a TKD grappling video. Stand up couldn't withstand the power of Muay Thai. The brutal leg kicks opened him up to allow me to move into boxing range.

Brown Belt Wing Chun - good hand work but it is pretty hard to trap a good boxer with JKD vertical punches. Wing Chun Boy had crappy mobility and was tormented with kicks. Obviously zero grappling skills.

[Guest]

I have a karate and BJJ background. I watched one knife fighting class. We had a 3rd black belt in Aikido in my BJJ class. We agreed that I would roll up a magazine and act like it was a knife. He would use Aikido to render me helpless.

What a joke. I cut him and stabbed him until we both got bored with the whole process. Not once did he even come close to defending himself.

Aikido should be sued for fraud in imitating a fighting art. I tried it for a month and couldn't stop laughing at how stupid it was.

[BlackMaskX]

Chris, do you use pure IMAs?

Chris,

According to your posts, you seem to be able to use internal martial arts to good effect. Correct me if I am wrong about this, but judging by some of your other posts, you seem to prefer internal arts to external arts. I am curious about a couple of things:

1. You have said that you have trained in several different styles besides IMAs. Do you feel that having a good background in external styles has allowed you to more effectively apply what you learned in IMAs? In other words, do you think you could fight well if you had studied only internal styles?

2. How does your school/instructor train combat effectiveness? Do you go from forms to partner drills and then to free sparring? Or do you do a lot of free sparring from the start?

Also, how do you do force training? Does your school do any kind of chi kung, etc., or do you stick to weightlifting, running, etc. (less esoteric methods)?