Every trained with ...

[IPON]

Ben Dover...not to picky but brown belt in wing chun black belt choy li fut?????? They are typically sashes in chinese (non karate) arts.

Wrestling VS TKD I started with muy uncle BB in TKD. I actually challenged him with wrestling. He had great kicking speed and power and hands (from boxing) first round I was kicked into the wall (I still feel it). After I knew he was serious I would trap his leg or shoot, either would end on the ground defenseless.


Tang Soo Do vs TKD: TKD definately threw and landed more kicks, but I threw and landed more punches. I think my blocking was and movement was better. I felt my kicks had more power and TKD definatly more speed

Wing Chun VS TKD: Chi Sau with a fe different JKD stylists and it was no contest they barely touched me (though I have studied JKD as well). I "free sparred" with one and he definately got me with the first punch but after that I owned him. His JKD was stiff eventhough he was an "instructor".

Wrestling/Jujusu VS Judo: not really a challenge but the first time I went to judo they had stand up randori like iron man you fought until you were beat basically throw to teh ground best out of 2 I went through 6 people 12 matches and I thought I was going to DIE I was sucking air and just was sucking air. Anyway I knew jujutsu but really got over on my wrestling background. Basically none could throw me or I reversed it ... this was wb to bb. I really can't say anythiong bad about Judo and honestly it was a blurr I laid on the floor for 30 minutes and was hoping I didn't habve to move until the next day

[chris davis 200]

Hi Black mask,

1. You have said that you have trained in several different styles besides IMAs. Do you feel that having a good background in external styles has allowed you to more effectively apply what you learned in IMAs? In other words, do you think you could fight well if you had studied only internal styles?

I have got a background in some external styles. I think that this gave me a good feeling of balance and external force. Aslo a knowledge of the type of attacks that external systems favour.

As for wether this allowed me to progress in internal systems. I think maybe it did to some extent. Especially from a basic balance point of view. BUT unfortunately you have to un-learn the external force idea's so this can be very difficult.

Generally ba gua was taught to masters already very very proficient in another fighting style. I would liken it to a PHD in martial arts, most people have a high school or collage education some have degree's few have a PHD's - this is how i would liken the training in bagua. you do need to go through the other areas first.

I think that alll can achieve the results i have found if starting from scratch, but if you have trained in other arts first you may understand some things better / quicker.

2. How does your school/instructor train combat effectiveness? Do you go from forms to partner drills and then to free sparring? Or do you do a lot of free sparring from the start?

I have just got back from a ba gua retreat and we basically trained in form and then applied the principles of the form to combat. this is not sparring per-say - more 2 person drills - but with realism and creativity.

They are not set - for example - if somone can easily block or counter your counter or attack then they must do so, this means that the fight may look a little messy (as it does in the street) but you are still applying your principles and it is very realistic.

We often practice 'full on' full contact no pads stuff - in fact we never wear pads, exept for some of the really penetrating strikes that bruise internal organs.

so basically we do 2 man sets / free figthing from the start. although it doesnt look like your two men 'squaring off' style of figthing/sparring and is generally over fairly quick - as staying in the fighters favourite range is against the fighting principles of ba gua.

we dont play the normal game!

As for force training - there is alot of conditioning in the forms - one run through of a form will kick the breath out of you, because of the tension on your posture.

I still do cardio vascular and weights work as do most.

People have a view that the internal arts are very soft training and not very intensive - this could not be less true - standing post if done correctly is very demanding. forms if done correctly are VERY demanding. the figthing is not opposing the force of the attacker - so it may feel soft to the attacker at that point but when you unload a strike - believe me they feel it!

This is probably vastly inadiquate to explain the type of practice we do. but maybe some insight.

cheers
chris

[chris davis 200]

If fact i took some m-peg footage - i will try to upload it to some web space.

cheers
chris

[BlackMaskX]

Thanks Chris. I'll keep that info in mind.

I have another question: do you have any experience with chi kung/qigong? From what you have described, it seems like you and your school prefer more orthodox methods of training (weightlifting, running, etc.)

If you have had experience with chi kung, have you found it to be worthwhile from either a martial or health perspective? Some people have told me that chi kung is not always easy, but often requires a lot of tension, especially like that "horse stance." Still, I cannot see how standing in place, as uncomfortable as it may be, could benefit health or increase martial ability.

By the way, who is your instructor?

[jaykay]

My few "friendly" fights. I train in pankration/JJ.

vs Traditional JuJitsu (grappling)
I was grappling with the instructor. He is a black belt. I wasn't going particularly hard but I walked all over him, and he was using dirty tricks like bending fingers.

vs BJJ (grappling)
I grappled a few BJJ guys. For the most part they walked all over me. A lot of that had to do with the fact that these guys were stronger than me, but still, smashed. I won a few against some white belts, but lost most of them.

[chris davis 200]

do you have any experience with chi kung/qigong? From what you have described, it seems like you and your school prefer more orthodox methods of training (weightlifting, running, etc.)

The orthodox methods that i do - i do outside of the school.

It is not really a school as such - i have an internal arts teacher.

We do focus also on the Chi kung methods and standing post practice. this is as important as fighting drills.

I think you are talking about standing post chi kung - this is where you stand in a set posture from 5mins to 1hr.

Believe me, when done correctly this is very very dificult. One of the main purposes of standing post is to stretch and increase the elasticity in the tendons. This is the 'motor' of internal martial arts. The structure of striking and alignment in internal systems is based on the elasticity and strength of the tendon structure and the strength and connection of the bone structure, not on the muscularture.

tendons are capable of holding far more potential energy than muscles, this is one reason why some people can be hit from no distance and still feel a hard strike - the potential energy in the tendons is released which causes a movement of the connected skeletal structure. so its like being hit by every bone in the body.

standing post is NOT directly applicable to fighting - but is gives you this type of strength to fight using internal principles.

----- ------- ------- ------- --------

You can also have moving chi gung - of which there are many methods, this creates flexability in the body and does something called, opening the joints, this causes the joints to be very free and release imidiatley.

I like to use the analogy of the drunk. (as a doorman it makes sense to me)

If you have to control a sober person that is tense and 'boyant' he is easily liften from the ground and moved around.

If you have to move someone heavily drunk then you need several people to do it, this is because his joints are not under tension, he is a dead weight.

This is what this releasing achieves - the ability for limbs or your body to become a dead weight when fighting. Useful if someone tries to shoot.

Of course there are many other aspects to Chi gung and standing post but i feel that these are the main things that apply to fighting.

So Chi gung and standing post are NOT directly applicable to fighting but they do set up principles and body mechanics that are.

There is also hard chi gung, which is similar to external body conditioning.

Hope this is of help, i am just a beginner.

Cheers
Chris