Technique over strength?

[Jazzshredder86]

Hey, im young (17) and new to thai boxing, as i've mostly done grappling (BJJ) and stand up, japanese jiu jitsu. Ive been working really hard to perfect my technique on my roundhouses and punches, but find that they can lack power even though my technique is pretty good. Is there such a thing as a weak thai roundhouse if its properly performed? Im not very strong or muscular, because 'm a historical swordsman (rapier) and have been doing that since I was a little kid, so I dont really have much upper body strength as bulk and muscle are not required, and in some cases, can actually hinder your swordsmanship. SO how can I practice getting power and speed on punches and kicks, as I have already got a pretty good grip on technique? also, anyone have any tips on stretches for the tendons and muscles in my thighs? Ive got lots of strength there but not much flexibility, and it doesnt take much for me to cramp. Thanks a ton, sorry If my question kind of rambles.

[Jazzshredder86]

Also, I live in Alexandria, VA. If theres anyone around whose willing to take a newbie as a training partner, Id gladly accept getting the crap kicked outta me if someone were to assist me in my Thai boxing abilities....

shoot me an email at n_borek@yahoo.com if anyone is interested.

[Nick]

...

You gotta go the technique over and over and over...

Later...

[sslinky]

Although strength obviously does help with power development, I find that a good technique is *far* more important.

What I found personally was that *timing* is everything. A reverse punch / straight / cross whatever you want to call it should be powered by the whole body. The shoulder, hip and rear leg should push most of your body weight into the punch. You need to develop your rythmn and timing so that at the point of impact your whole body is in sync with the punch and driving forward through it. It takes a while to get this right because when you start you find that your all these different body parts don't quite move together.
The same is true of the roundhouse.

Probably the best way to build up power is to practice on the heavy bag. Practice slowly for technique and try to see how your body weight moves behind the strike, and then slowly build up speed. There is a saying: "the heavy bag doesn't lie" -it will give you a true indication of how your power is developing.

You do also need to develop particular muscle groups that you may find you haven't used that much before. For example, there's a muscle at the top of your thigh that's used to raise the leg which I found built up massively through doing (thousands of) roundhouses, and is probably the main power muscle (if you don't snap your kicks at the knee). I also found that development of the abs and surrounding muscle helps a lot with power and control.

Triceps/chest exercises such as pressups and dips will help build up the arms and chest for punching.

Re: stretching - again, splits-type stretches and their many variations are all you need. eg. put your legs as wide apart as you can, keep your legs straight then try to hold one ankle with both hands, or, sit down, one leg out in front, other tucked in to your groin, reach forward and grab your ankle/foot.

I always though cramp was caused by lack of fluid intake? In which case make sure you're properly hydrated.

That's my two penneth.

[jubaji]

Originally posted by sslinky

I always though cramp was caused by lack of fluid intake?

Or low potassium levels.

[SOUTHPAW]

You need to work on technique AND strength...that means conditioning drills, heavy bag work, and weights. If you concentrate on core training, sport specific exercises, and plyometrics you will develop the kind of explosive power that will enhance your good form and enable you to deliver punches and kicks with K.O. force. You're still a young guy, it takes time to develop true power as well. A lot of youngsters neglect weights...but it's important to develop not only offensive strength, but the ability to withstand punishment as well. Good luck, train hard and hook up with a good trainer if you can.

[Jazzshredder86]

endurance

Thanks, I've recently found that im more powerful than i though, its just that I tend to think about it too much and dont just explode into the strike. I've started working 4 days a week on a heavy bag starting two weeks ago, but right now i need to work on endurance for my upper body, and keeping my punches and elbows going continually strong. anyone have any tips on weight lifting techniques to work general arm, shoulder, and chest endurance? thanks a ton

[sslinky]

For endurance, be best exercise by far is running. This obviously does not focus on the arms as such, but will give you good overall stamina. This should be your main priority. Someone said about boxing training: “if you have time for only one exercise, run”. I try to run 5k at reasonable pace, about 4 or 5 times a week.

If you want to work a combination of strength and endurance for particular muscles such as the arms and chest, you should really be aiming for exercises with a large number of reps, say at least 50. Low-endurance strength or mass building exercises typically use 6-10 reps of as heavy a weight as you can lift. Depends what you want?

For arms and chest you could simply do press-ups and dips. If you particularly want to use the gym, the main exercise is the flat bench press (try to use lose weights if possible). For each exercise, always do a warm-up set of about 50% weight, 10-15 reps, then do 2 “all out” sets. Always keep good form (never swing the weights), and only lift weights you can lift with good form. It’s not a competition (yet).

Typical chest and triceps workout:
Flat bench (chest and triceps)
Incline bench (chest and triceps)
Close-grip flat bench (mostly triceps)
Cable push-downs (triceps only)
The order is important because if you train your triceps first, they will be too tired to do the bench press so you won’t be able to exercise your chest properly.
(You may want to get someone to spot you for the bench press)

There will be various machines in the gym for shoulders such as the “shoulder press”, and you can also do straight-arm raises with dumbells.

I would recommend you use a split routine (chest/tri’s one day, shoulders the next, back/biceps the next etc). Train no more than 3 times per week, with off-days in between, and you shouldn’t need to spend more than 45 mins working out at a time.

The world of weight training is incredibly hard on the body and virtually everyone over does it. If you want any more advice on any aspect of it, just ask – it could save you hours of wasted time in the gym.

[choylifutrocks]

Originally posted by sslinky
The world of weight training is incredibly hard on the body and virtually everyone over does it. If you want any more advice on any aspect of it, just ask – it could save you hours of wasted time in the gym.

True ^...It is very easy to waste your time at the gym. If you lift wrong, you won't stimulate your muscles, and if you don't eat properly, your body doesn't have the required building blocks to increase muscle size. If you're going to lift hard, take your vitamins and eat good. It is virtualy impossible to replace the vitamins you lose during and intense weightlifting session on food alone. Banana's are good to replace potassium, which wears out quick.

Follow this link. This will tell you your basal metabolism (how many calories your body burns through each day), in order to grow, you must have excess:

http://www.room42.com/nutrition/basal.shtml

Pay attention to the calories, I personally believe their recommendations for protein/carbohydrate/fat intake are off, and many weight trainers would agree. To put on some size you should take your basal metabolism, and dump about an additional 1000 to 1500 calories on top of that. If you are thin and very active, go with 1500. After that you're gonna have to do some math. You should take in approx 40% protein / 40% carbs. / 20% Fats (fats are very important for your heart to function properly). Now, protein is 4 calories per gram, carbs. are 4 calories per gram, fat is 9 calories per gram, and alcohol is 7 calories per gram (I would recommend no aclky )

Example, if your basal metabolism is 1500 calories per day, you should take in about 3000 calories per day in at least 5 meals, some pro BB's eat like 8-10 times a day.

1200 calories of Carbohydrates == 300 Grams
1200 calories of Protein == 300 Grams
600 calories of Fat == ~ 67 Grams

3000 calories in about 667 G of food

*These are rough, OPTIMAL, numbers and estimates...you don't have to hit those exactly, they're not magic. I never do, haha.

For each working bodypart, choose about 3 - 4 exercises per night, and do a total of about 12 sets, not including warm ups. As a beginner I would recommend 8-12 reps for all exercises. Warm ups, like 15-20 reps of light weight.
Exercises:

Chest: Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Incline Dumbell Bench, Chest Flys, Cable Cross-Overs, Dips, Fly Machine (Pec. Deck).

Back: Seated Rows, Pull Down (close grip), Pull Downs (wide grip). There are more, but for now I would stick to those, it's easy to hurt your back.

Shoulders/trapz: Front Lateral Raises, Side Lateral Raises, Bent Over Lateral Raises (sitting on a bench, hunched to harget rear deltoid head), military press, barbell shrugs, dumbell shrugs (i like), standing rows.

Legs: Hamstring Curls, Leg extensions, Leg press, Lunges, Squats (dangerous to back, not recommended for beginners), Calf Raises.

Arms:
Biceps: Hammer Curls, EZ Bar (curved one) curls, barbell
curls, dumbell curls, preacher curls, reverse (palm down) curls.

Triceps: Kick Backs, French Curls Seated, French Curls lying
down, Cable Push downs w/ bar, Cable push downs w/ rope
(great), close grip bench press (also good for inner chest), Dips.

This will help you bulk up, get stronger, faster, and will increase your anaerobic capacity, usually associated with fast twitch fibers. These fibers usually fatigue fast, so this should HELP in maintaining explosiveness.

Like was stated earlier, keep good form and always go through a complete range of motion, only cheat when you have to, ie last couple reps w/o a spotter. Train w/a partner if possible. A good protein shake when you wake up, and after a workout is always a great help. There are good deals at http://www.bodybuildingdiscount.com ... I like N-Large in Chocolate. You can take 1/2 servings, 2 scoops, w/ 16 oz of milk and you'll get like 46 G Protein, and like 115 G Carbs. I'm unsure of the fat count. It should last about a month w/ 2 1/2 servings per day, and is like $30 per 10 lb. bucket . I hope this helps

[sslinky]

Yeah, that’s all good advice.

Just to emphasise it: many people think that in order to pack on muscle they simply need to spend hours in the gym doing as much work as possible, but that’s not entirely true. Whenever you train your body tissue actually breaks down slightly (which is basically why your muscles feel sore afterwards) and you also use a lot of energy. It is vital that you give your body time to recover, and feed it with the correct amount of energy/calories and nutrients for it to do so (as described above). Getting enough sleep is also part of this. *Recovery is just as important as the actual exercise*

You have learn to strike a balance between exercise and recovery – and it’s different for everybody. If you don’t fully recover between workouts you will find that you enter a slow downwards spiral of reduced energy etc, until your training is producing no gains at all – “overtraining” as it’s known. You can also make yourself ill doing this, as the immune system is one of the first things to suffer.

A good indication of which side of the balance you are on is how you feel when you enter the gym. If you feel energised and ready for a good workout, then you are most likely on the right side (and could possibly do more). If every time you enter the gym you feel tired and that each exercise is an ordeal, they you’re almost certainly doing too much.

[SOUTHPAW]

There have been a lot of good posts here...some very knoledgable people..thanks, I am learning.
To develop arm/chest/shoulder/and back endurance. You want the kind of strength/endurance that is functional. Try pull-ups, push-ups, dips, and a lot of abdominal work (sit-ups, crunches, leg-lifts, flutter-kicks). Also jumpling rope with a weighted jump rope, shadow boxing with light hand weights, and plyometric exercises (jumping squats, box jumping, and clapping style push-ups). You might also be interested in Core training, and using a Swiss-ball to develop added stability. Check out RossBoxing.com for some good references on these.

[choylifutrocks]

Originally posted by sslinky
Yeah, that’s all good advice.
... *Recovery is just as important as the actual exercise*

You have learn to strike a balance between exercise and recovery – and it’s different for everybody. If you don’t fully recover between workouts you will find that you enter a slow downwards spiral of reduced energy etc, until your training is producing no gains at all – “overtraining” as it’s known. You can also make yourself ill doing this, as the immune system is one of the first things to suffer.

A good indication of which side of the balance you are on is how you feel when you enter the gym. If you feel energised and ready for a good workout, then you are most likely on the right side (and could possibly do more). If every time you enter the gym you feel tired and that each exercise is an ordeal, they you’re almost certainly doing too much.

What do you say about going into business opening a gym as a personal training duo? LOL. Good advice, thanks for bringing up sleep...it's important. One more thing, a lot of peope who really pack on the pounds say it is 75% diet 25% gym, some are even more extreme in their thoughts, but this is just an example as to how important it is to eat right.

Oh yeah, southpaw's invited too...he can train our boxers

[sslinky]

Originally posted by choylifutrocks

What do you say about going into business opening a gym as a personal training duo? LOL...
Oh yeah, southpaw's invited too...he can train our boxers

Haha, yeah, maybe we should!

[Khun Kao]

Jazzshredder...

You've got mail.

Brooks (khun kao)

[Undrtaker989]

I see plenty talk about chest and tri's, which is still important, but many neglect the BIG 3 excersises that give you the most bang for your buck. Those are: the Squat, the deadlift, and the overhead press. Rather than try to explain the VITAL form you need on these, I would suggest seeking a trainer or strength coach to show you the proper way to do these. If the person says that these are bad for you, then seek another trainer, as this person doesn't know what he/she is talking about.

As for sets/rep scheme, you will want to cycle from high rep/medium rep/low rep every couple of weeks or so.

For workout frequency, I would reccomend splitting the body into 2 workouts, one workout you work your push muscle groups (your pressing movements like bench/squat/overhead press), and the 2ond day will consist of your pulling movements (back, stiff legged deadlifts, bicep, rear delts). Do not workout 2 days in a row...you want to give yourself at least 1 day inb/w each day in the gym. So you could do it like this:

Monday: push workout
Wed: pull workout
friday: push workout

Monday: repeat..

This will give each muscle group 3-4 days of recover time before it gets hit next. If you feel sore/weak/or not 100% in the muscle group..don't go workout that day. You DO NOT NEED to workout on a set schuedule. Don't fall into the trap that you need to do chest/tri's on monday, and back/bi's on wed, ect.. Everybody has a life where things come up and everyone's body will not recover @ the same rate all of the time. You need to keep some variability adn flexibility in your routine. By keeping your workouts basic and splitting your body into 2 groups, you will NOT fall back on your goal by missing a day in the gym...you can get right back on track the next day and the extra day of recovery could only help you.

About bulking: Yes, you will gain the most muscle if you eat a tons of calories, however, you will gain the most fat as well...look like shit..and lose all or more that all of the muscle that you gained while bulking if you diet down to lose the 'bulking fat'. So what is the solution? EAT CLEAN! What does that mean? Sugars=bad (unless they are taken after a workout w/ your protien and NO fat), Processed foods (sweet cereals/poptarts/ect..) = bad, meals w/ excessive fat/carb ratios = Bad, however, it is important to take in the right carbs (good complex carbs) @ the right times of the day. Don't go on carb-free diets while training b/c carbs are vital if you want to train, and extremely low carb diets are mainly used for those who have <10%BF and trying to get shredded (I'm talking bodybuilder shredded). If you want to have a 'cheat meal' like pizza or the like a couple times a week, GO FOR IT...it keeps you sane and it keeps your metabolism up if you splurge every once in awhile.

Bottom line: If you eat enough clean (5+ meals a day of PLENTY good food) food and you train correctly...you will make more progress than you ever imagined. Especially since you are 17...you don't have to worry about diet as much and you have PLENTY anabolic hormones in your system just b/c of the age you are @. Eating right and training right will help keep those hormone levels (hence protien synthesis/muscle growth) up.

Good luck.