Spinning back fist!

[CHOKE UK]

In Full muay Thai,

when elbows , spinning back elbows, jumping elbows etc,
are allowed, why is the spinning back fist not allowed???

[Khun Kao]

Depends on the organization. Some organizations feel that it is too dangerous due to the fact that many fighters will throw this technique quite blindly and it leads to injuries.

One of the organizations that I fight for, the WKA, has just changed the rules and IS allowing the spinning backfist in competition now...

[CHOKE UK]

Depends on the organization. Some organizations feel that it is too dangerous due to the fact that many fighters will throw this technique quite blindly and it leads to injuries.

One of the organizations that I fight for, the WKA, has just changed the rules and IS allowing the spinning backfist in competition now...

.................................................................................................... .....

Khun Kao thanks for thr reply.

I know that it can be a powerfull strike but not as dangerous as say a spnning backelbow, or any type of elbow?.

Why is the spinning back fist singled out?

The spinning back fist/kick is one of my favourite moves!

I have seen it used in kickboxing but not usually in muay thai?

The poor old spinning back fist seems to have been abandoned but is a valuable weapon.
i find it is good against Boxers they seem to hate it !

[alexjxaver]

It is illigal because you are going to get knocked out throwing it. The most brutal KO i have ever seen, is some idiot trying to go into thailand with his fancy sipnning back kicks and fists. He got about 2 of them off before the thai cought on and jumped back form one of his round kicks, so he spinns and tries a back kick, but he runs into a beautiful kick that landed right across his face. Needless to say he did not walk out of the ring!! If he would not have been an idiot, trying stupid stuff in a fight, he probaly would have won the fight.

[Khun Kao]

I agree that the potential for the person throwing the technique getting KTFO'ed was a consideration, but I feel that the stronger consideration is that it is often thrown as an "uncontrolled" technique.

It is a great KO technique, but you have to understand that it is hard to have precision control with it. You often connect with the forearm or elbow when throwing this technique. The sanctioning bodies that ban this technique are usually the ones that don't allow elbows to the head.

In the case of the WKA, elbows to the head are not allowed in amateur competition, so for the longest time, spinning backfists were also not allowed due to the frequency of the spinning backfist being thrown "blind" and ending up connecting with the forearm or elbow.

Hope this makes sense!

[CHOKE UK]

I agree that the potential for the person throwing the technique getting KTFO'ed was a consideration, but I feel that the stronger consideration is that it is often thrown as an "uncontrolled" technique.

It is a great KO technique, but you have to understand that it is hard to have precision control with it. You often connect with the forearm or elbow when throwing this technique. The sanctioning bodies that ban this technique are usually the ones that don't allow elbows to the head.

In the case of the WKA, elbows to the head are not allowed in amateur competition, so for the longest time, spinning backfists were also not allowed due to the frequency of the spinning backfist being thrown "blind" and ending up connecting with the forearm or elbow.

Hope this makes sense!

.................................................................................................... ..Thanks Khun,
And i see your point,
but if the elbow lands instead of the fist.
Then it is a spinning back elbow, which under full muay thai rules is allowed.

So why do they therefore not allow the s.b.fist?

[Khun Kao]

That is a good question. Please understand that at this point, my knowledge of this rule only applies to what is and is not allowed in amateur competition.

I'm not sure which sanctioning bodies still rule against the Spinning Backfist. I know that the USKBA, and recently the WKA, allow them in competition.

I can only really speak for the WKA at this point, as it is the organization which I have most closely worked with and fought for. My understanding was that in amateurs, Spinning Backfists were banned because of the reasons I've already mentioned, that they are often uncontrolled techniques which wind up being Spinning Elbow or Spinning Forearm strikes.

Since I have not participated in or even attended a WKA professional event, I don't know whether or not this rule carries over to professional competition.

[Khun Kao]

Which sanctioning bodies are you referring to which have this listed as a "foul" tactic? This may help the discussion because we could contact the individual organizations and inquire for a rules clarification....

[CHOKE UK]

under european and even full muay thai rules.

Spiining back fist is not allowed.

But in many kickboxing events it is allowed.

If it was for worry about injury then I find that hard to understand.
As the elbow strikes like spinning back elbow is a more dangerous weapon.
As is the knee to the head!

It is something that has always puzzled me but no one has ever given me a good explanation.

Not sure I agree with alex's earlier point.
As if you lead with a hook you can get knocked out, but it doesnt make hooks useless!
Only if wrongly used!
I tend to use the spinning back fist when sparring as a decoy for a spiining back kick, i am not too fusssed if it lands or not, but it distracts the opponents arms, leaving space for the back thrust.

I have even found it useful in a street fight situation,
when some drunk comes steaming in.
I find it a very powerful kick!

[Khun Kao]

The World Muay Thai Council
www.wmtc.nu

This is THE authoritative sanctioning body of Muay Thai. Nowhere do I find in the rules that the spinning backfist is not allowed. If any rules of any other sanctioning bodies waver from this, then it is not "FULL" Muay Thai rules.

Item 18: FOULS AND STRIKES VIOLATING THE RULES

18.1. Biting, eye gouging, spitting, or head butting.

18.2. Wrestling, back or arm locks or any similar judo or wrestling hold.

18.3. Deliberately falling on his opponent.

18.4. Holding the ropes for any reason.

18.5. Swearing or the use of abusive language during the match.

18.6. Knocking out or injuring his opponent after the referee has ordered the match to stop for any reason.

18.7. Deliberately striking the groin area.

To be penalized by the deduction of 1 point for each time committed.

A boxer who has been hit in the groin, may request a 5 minute break before continuing the match.

Thats it! That is the entire rules of what you cannot do in the Muay Thai ring. Nothing there about Spinning Backfists being banned.

[CHOKE UK]

mmm good piece of info.

this topic needs further investigation me thinks!
Thanks khun

[Khun Kao]

no problem. Glad I could help!

[LiQuiD_PaRaDoX]

Hi all, Im new to this site...

But, on the topic of a spinning backfist - if you're interested in seeing a good one, check out some videos of Genki Sudo, particularly when he fought in K-1 against a Korean TKD guy.

Take care all

[eXcessiveForce]

No idea about the MT rules, but in TKD it is considered a blind technique. Techniques where the person executing the move cannot see the intended target before contact are considered illegal. That is why it is usually thrown as a spin, Pause, hit in TKD.

[TONGPO]

I've fought only at amateur level, but at 'true amateur' with head gaurds etc and 'pro amateur'?!? with only gloves and groin guard. In the UK, under two different bodies (smaller ones) and the backfist was allowed. makes sense that its not allowed where elbows are not, cos its easy to mistime and clean out ya opponent with elbow etc