For the experienced only.

[Screamtruth]

I've been reading alot throughout this forum, and I have seen that there are a few ring experienced fighters. I have a question for you, and will appreciate your opinions on them.
In all my matches, I rarely kick high, such as to the neck or head. If I see a deliberate opening, then maybe I would go ahead and shoot for it. Although that holds true for a ring match, what about on the street? I have yet to use any of my ring experience in a confrotation elsewhere, and I sometimes question it's effectiveness since I do not know how your average Joe out and about would react to a leg kick, or an elbow across the face. How does your ring time affect your real world scenarios? Has anybody had a confrontation in which they have utilized their low/high Thai kicks? I am comfortable in the gym, but I have a somewhat dimmed confidence out and about.

[jimmy q]

In me experience I find that the fact that you have a completely different mindset in the ring and on the street plays a big role. On the street it comes down to pure instinct and its rare that your instinct would tell you to throw a big flash kick. As regards training helping you in street situations I throw tidier punches and am quiker to the mark but thats about it. I think nebody who trains seriously will develop a healthy respect for fighting and thus fight less when confronted outside the ring/dojo. Maybe this is down to the fact that you feel you dont have to prove yourself anymore cos MA gives you a healthy outlet to do this. I know thats true in my case- I used to be a right little terror when out on the town but now fight only when I'm outta options. I might throw a few knees or kicks just above their knees out on the street but you wont find me doing ne Bojansky-style flights!
MA gives you enuff fighting confidence that you dont need to fight

[Screamtruth]

Thanks for the reply. I guess my next question would be how does your average guy take a shin to the outside of his leg? I know they hurt, but would be enough to make a guy think to himself "HMM, that shit hurts, maybe I should leave this dude alone."

[Python]

Good question, and I'm sure you will get some varied opinions from here, but here is mine: With Amateur and Pro, I have close to 30 fights in the ring(I know, some of you have over a 100). Anyway, I have had more than my share of street fights over the years as well, not by choice of course, wrong place wrong time shit, ya know. ON to the point....While I have kicked both low and high in the ring, I have never thrown a high kick on the street. IN fact, I have thrown very few low kicks, as the fights have always seemed to have erupted fast and the gap was closed instantly, so no room for kicks. ON the other hand, knees and elbows and palms to the chin have proven effective. But the last two on the street were like 13 on 3(I was one of the 3) and 15 on 2(guess? yep, I was on of the two). IN both of these I was LUCKY enough to talk our way out of a major ass whoopin. I pulled guys off my friends and managed to calm them all down without throwing one strike. Again, very lucky!

My point to all of this is: it is hard to transfer technique from the ring to the street simply because "time" is going at mach 10, thus less time to think and set up shots. What you will bring from the ring to the street is this: Confidence, control of emotions(more relaxed means longer wind) timing, balance, power, and speed, etc...it is the attributes that training and competing develop, that come thru for you in the street.

With your ring experience, you will be more prepared than the average Joe with no experience. The more you train, the more comfortable you become having someone throw shots at you, so in the street you can think clearer.

ONe more point, My advice: NEVER kick high in the street, if you kick low set it up on the high line first, then take the kick low. Remember, there are no "absolutes"...anything can happen at any given time, and anyone can be beaten at any given time.

Hope this "book" answered your question to some degree. Good luck!

[Python]

Your second question about the shin kick to the leg....I don't think it will be enough to stop the guy on the street, atleast not the first kick. The adrenaline is pumping to high to feel that kinda pain right away, even groin shots don't always stop your oponent immediately. If you do the low round to the leg, I think you are better off going for the inside or outside of the knee vs. the thigh. It goes back to the mindset like JimmyQ just said.

[Screamtruth]

Well put P. Another aspect occured to me as I was watching the Alex Gong vs. Duane Ludwig fight on ESPN2; In the opening minutes of the 1st round, Duane threw a series of straights to Alex, and in return Alex unleashed a barrage of straights, with a leg kick, and then moved into a clinch. In the clinch he threw kneews and elbows over the top of Duane's guard, then he pushed away and attacked again with a low kick. I wonder if this type of aggressive offense is effective. I have had opponents come at me like that. They've closed the distance with a low kick then a barrage of punches, only to tie me up in a clinch a kill my abs with knees. Now, since I train, I was able to weather most of the blows, and my adrenaline was pumping, but I think the same type of blows delivered on someone who is expecting just punches or something like that would put them down or at least in a world of hurt.

[Python]

Yea, I would agree, a guy expecting punches will be overwhelmed by the knees, expecially multiple knees. You keep a guy on the defensive all the time and it is hard for him to counter effectively, whether the ring or the street. And, keeping him off guard by switching the attack line is good also. Mixing up the elbows on the high line with the knees on the middle and low lines, and sticking in that low kick during range transitions seems to me to be a good game plan.

[ZAGA-BONGO]

My boxing is been always enough!

I've been reading alot throughout this forum, and I have seen that there are a few ring experienced fighters. I have a question for you, and will appreciate your opinions on them.
In all my matches, I rarely kick high, such as to the neck or head. If I see a deliberate opening, then maybe I would go ahead and shoot for it. Although that holds true for a ring match, what about on the street? I have yet to use any of my ring experience in a confrotation elsewhere, and I sometimes question it's effectiveness since I do not know how your average Joe out and about would react to a leg kick, or an elbow across the face. How does your ring time affect your real world scenarios? Has anybody had a confrontation in which they have utilized their low/high Thai kicks? I am comfortable in the gym, but I have a somewhat dimmed confidence out and about.

I am a boxer and I only did boxing for more then 12 years, I've had more scraps in the street than the fights on the ring(competition).
I would rather advise you to discard the possibility of using head kicks in the street, and this is just an opinion from my direct experience. I've had in two diffrent occasions fights with guys who I suppose did martial arts, I can't tell as I am no expert in understanding styles especially from scraps happening very fast in the street, these guys seemed very good with kicks, the first one gave a very high kick in the air and I think it was more to intimidate me, so that I stop, he probably thought that I would shit myself If I think that I was risking to fight against a skilled M. Art expert, that was his mistake with me, he could not know that I was nominated the " Machine gun" in my gym, for my fast boxing combinations, after I closed the distance while his leg was just about to land I attacked him with fast series to face and body just to see him sleeping two seconds after that. The other occasion with another guy, and tha was six or eight months after that, it was with a real tough one who did not wait to launch his attack kicking me to the head, I did not see it coming, I jsut felt something hitting me on the head and I almost lost balance, must be that I am used to take punishment and being a boxer I just instictively counterd with my right hook, closed the distance and here again while he was trying to clinch me I landed four punches before he sat on the ground with a nose running like a tap! but I must admit, that kick made my jaw sore for few days! I think if I was not an experienced boxer he would have probably kicked the shit out of myself.
Not that I go looking for shit, everytime I fight is pure self defence!
With all the respect!

Peace

[Screamtruth]

I've been working a lot lately on my hands; speed bag, shadow, and pushups. I've also tried and putting together more combo's and quicker combo's. I still do not neglect my other strikes such as knees, elbows, and kicks; but I do feel that having good hands and knees, will be advantageous since the distance is closed so rapidly. I do practice grappling on occasion at my school, but it's mainly for the basics, since I wouldn't really want to be on the ground in a fight, but I would have some experience, enough to defend my butt with; and in the ring, I only fight Thai style anyways, so no takedowns.

[jimmy q]

One of my friends died yesterday in a street-fight. He was struck on the head with a hurley[I dunno if ye know wot that is]. It just puts a perspective on things wen here we are chatting away bout our streetfightin experiences. In memory of Rocky O'Reilley[1983-2004].

[Screamtruth]

Respect and sympathy to you and your freind's family.

[Python]

For Jimmyq

Hey Jimmy,

Sorry to hear about your friend. My prayers go out to his family. Yes it is ironic how this happened and here we are discussing it...in fact, yesterday, just before reading your post, I was on the IKF kickboxing forum and a young kickboxer in Virginia tried to save a dog(thats right, a dog) from 4 pumks beating it with 2x4's. Well, he was whoopin' them as I read it when one pulled a knife and stabbed him just under the ribs. They then ran off, the cut just missed being fatal, so he was very lucky.

Yes, you are so right, it does put life in perspective, sad but true.

Keep your chin up man.

Respectfully, Pete Peterson

[jimmy q]

Thanx for that lads. I'm staying in this weekend as the town is at a standstill due to reprisals. Violence just seems to beget violence.

[darrianation]

Jimmy my condolences go out to you and your friend’s family. It is always sad to hear these things.

Screamtruth, I have trained in MT and karate, as well as other martial arts and let me tell you the most effective striking for the street is Muay Thai. Boxing is good also but with MT you have more natural weapons.

Almost in every fight at some point there will be a clinch (regardless if the fight goes to the ground or stays upright clinches are very common), almost universally someone always tries to grab on. This is where MT has a unique and distinct advantage over other MA systems. The infighting of MT is by far superior to most other styles (with few exceptions).

I have used MT in self-defense in against simple assaults; criminal attacks such as armed multiples, and against a huge, mean ass, club-swinging maniac.

Against armed multiples no empty hand techniques will keep you alive for long, but my MT and a bicycle lock kept me alive long enough for help to arrive. Against the club my grappling came in handy (I stepped in as he swung and executed a throw) I also used eye gouges, leg kicks (MT), and clinch knees (MT). The guy was also much larger and stronger than me. He finally had enough and retreated with some help from a friend.

I teach self-defense and my striking curriculum is based on MT with a few (very few) modifications. Of course I also teach grappling and weapons. Your Muay Thai or kickboxing will do you well in a street fight, of course there is more to street fighting than what you see in the ring.

The street is much more dynamic and unpredictable. Environments are also more varied, cement, hard cold curbs, asphalt, slopping/uneven ground, wet/slippery surfaces, confined spaces, hasty weapons, and etc. You also have to worry about multiples, weapons (knives, guns, and other weapons), and ground fighting.

I agree that high kicks are not suitable for most street encounters or environments, But if kicking is one of your natural physical attributes and you do it well and you do it at the right time, under the right circumstances then, well that’s up to you. I don’t recommend it.

Kicking should be kept low; you will land a higher percentage of kicks and reduce the risk of slips and having your foot caught.

Muay Thai is great regardless of what you do after your ring days are over your MT/KB will serve you well.

[Tom Yum]

As a side note, some big guys aren't used to getting hit back hard. The exceptions of course are guys with fight experience, whether ring or street.

The fights they get into usually involve them picking up guys from some kind of a clinch and tossing him/falling on top of him, or swinging so hard they knock the other guy out in a quick exchange. I agree with Darrianation that working the clinch aggressively could give you the upper hand against a bigger fighter, whether its used to keep the guy off balance to set up a throw or executing your own attacks from the inside.

Once you get the clinch, you have to stay active. You want to keep it going somewhere, because if you just stand there in the clinch, the big guy will get a hold of you and toss you down like a sack of potatoes, maybe land on top of you

Like most techniques your legs play a huge role in the clinch. A 150 lb guy who can rep squat with 400 should have little issues moving the 200 lb guy, as long as he can feel where the center of balance is - its not all power, but also sensitivity, kind of like what aikido/judo guys do.

Seems like your lats, shoulders and neck are important too because those places are particularly sore after working on clinch, especially the neck.

I'm learning more and more about the clinch. The Thai-trained fighters are amazing with the clinch and can control just about anyone in it, except well trained grapplers.