Muay Thai vs Western Boxing

[Abe]

Pretty even i would say. All depends on the fights individual styles and ability to adapt. Having more weapons doesn't bring any advantage in this situation, think ring movement and distance would be the key.

Has anyone ever seen an example of such fights? I've seen TKD vs MT Kb vs MT etc. But never boxing?

[Tom Yum]

Boxing vs. kyokushin or muay thai

Fujiyama (kyokushin) vs. Botha (boxing) in K-1.

Fujiyama is a K-1 regular and dropped Botha with a kick to the head.

Botha (boxing) vs. Le Banner (kickboxing)

Botha, learning from his experience was able to keep Le Banner in a tight boxing match and rock him silly.

Ray Mercer (boxing) vs. Le Banner (i think??)(kickboxing)

Le Banner drops mercer with a head kick.

Botha vs. Abidi (kickboxing)

Part 1 - Botha clearly dominates, blasts Abidi and sends him to the mat, but gets dq'd for hitting abidi on the ground. Botha would have won by KO or TKO in rd 1 if they discounted the ground hook.

Part 2 - Abidi does his homework and puts up better defense against Botha, peppers him with some slamming thigh kicks and sends him to the mat with a kick to the head.

There's more...

but its pretty even. Most of the boxing vs. kickboxing/muaythai/kyokushin fights are usually between former pro-boxers and K-1's top.

Will we ever see a fight between a current boxing champ vs a rajadamnern champ? Probably not because fights are as much about economics as they are about proving ground...

[Drag'n]

In the recent October K1 MAX there were 3 boxers in the lineup.1 of them was a very recent world champ.All 3 got a real beating, losing by TKOs.They just couldn't deal with the devastating low kicks and knees of the kickboxers.
1 of them fought MMA rules against a judo champ and got grounded and pounded before he could even get off 1 good punch.
These days Kickboxers work alot on their boxing skills.I dont know about the street, but in the ring a boxer is at a serious disadvantage unless hes trained in how to defend against low kicks and knees. Which would make him a kickboxer.

[Warrior189]

I think dat makes them a smart fighter not a kickboxer.

[bigboywasim]

It is very simple to understand which style will most likely come on top. First of all most Muay Thai schools also train in boxing as well. Second inorder for you to be a great kickboxer you need to be a great boxer as well. Inoder to be a great boxer you don't need to know nothing about kicks, elbows or knees. If you were to take the best boxer and Muay Thai fighter. Same weight catagory and about the same size. I am sure that the Muay Thai fighter will come on top. They just have too many weapons at their side. The bottom line is the Muay Thai fighters know how to protect themselves from punches which is the only weapon a boxer gots. The boxer doesn't know anything about kicks, elbows and knees. Also like good boxers can take pain a Muay Thai fighter can take a lot of pain as well. This is one of the reasons why other martial artists don't do well in the UFC because they are not conditioned to take so much pain. That is why all the top fighters know Muay Thai.

[Tom Yum]

I agree that muay thai fighters have more weapons. If they fight a boxer who has never seen muay thai before, sure they could do some damage. Just like a muaythai fighter who has never trained against a grappler; grappler wins.

At the same time, I think most kickboxers and perhaps some muay thai fighters have never experienced punching power from guys with some serious boxing ability. I say this humbly since I started out in kickboxing/muay thai and have gradually switched over to boxing. The difference in punching power is HUGE.

Its like comparing kicking power from wingchun to muay thai. Wingchun guys can throw some nice stiff kicks, but not with the same devastating power as thai boxers.

When training with kickboxers who have about the same experience as I do, I can sometimes outbox them because of footwork and timing that I've learned from boxing and also from just keeping the fight in boxing range.

Despite low kicks and knees, some boxers have KO'd fighters from K-1. Its about even.

[jubaji]

inorder for you to be a great kickboxer you need to be a great boxer as well. .

Ho-ho-oh, I dunno about that!

[Hibernatus]

JKD master would win if he is as conditioned as the other 2 stylists. But both Muay Thai and W. Boxers are very hardcore and focused in their training approach, something that doesnt always transfer to JKD. I would say the one that is more hardcore usually wins, no matter the style. But then again, properly done thigh kicks have been known to send some badasses down fairly fast. So I will say, the person who is more hardcore + has a better mastery of his style will win 99% of the time. We also have to consider that different styles have different learning curves (JKD being probably the longest), and while some can get effective in a short amount of time, like boxing, others take much longer to be adequate for a real combat.

Final verdict? Muay Thai style has a better chance on average, because it is the most efficient of the three with a good arsenal and a moderate learning curve. It takes forever to become a badass at JKD and Boxing is just too limited at higher levels. But that's just my opinion.

Anyone been to a MT training camp?

[ec2188]

wing chun kix

ive never studied wing chun but from what i know of it, they dont emphasize kicking alot because power kicks put the body out of position to counter in the event that the kick is blocked, deflected, broken, etc. Most wing chun practitioners are not very kick heavy so wing chun kicking being weaker than kick boxing kicking is not exactly a great comparison. Even in movies, wingchun and other chinese wushu practitioners (jet li, bruce lee, donnie. Probably another martial art which emphasizes on kicking (ie, Tae Kwon Do or Tang Soo Do) would be a better comparison...however tae kwon do seems to place too much emphasis on high kicks and such which in reality are not really used too often in fights. Id say that their kick strength would be equal but the muay thai fighter wins because of the emphasis on practical hits.

[twtguy]

This is a funny thread. The real question is...since this is a streetfight...does the MT fighter have jeans on? This may sound stupid, but how many of you can throw good kicks with jeans on. I know I cant, and if im not in the gym...Im probably wearing jeans just like most other people. But hey, if you can throw kicks just as well, then my hats off to you.

[Hibernatus]

But you can still use knees and elbows...

[twtguy]

But you can still use knees and elbows...

Touche...touche

[Hibernatus]

Since this topic seems pretty much dead, I'm gonna throw this in. If there was one MA I had to bet my life on when it comes to real self-defense, it would be SAMBO, the one taught to spetsnaz (spec ops) in Russia. It focuses not only with the combat techniques compiled by top Russian scientists, but also with the psychological aspects one faces during a fight. I'll just let the stats of this Russian speak for themselves. http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/f...fighterID=1500. But you really got to see his fights to get the idea of what I'm talking about. On the ring this guy is a tactical killing machine. Why? Because that's what SAMBO teaches you. He doesn't seem to know what fear or self-doubt is. Failure is not an option. Why? Because SAMBO is the art of survival. It's not taught with the same mentality as other martial arts where you can just lose a fight and go home. Now, it doesn't mean that he will always win of course, as there might be other better fighters. But if you are interested in bringing your self-defense to a whole new level, I recommend looking into SAMBO.

[Kendamu]

Can't the psychological aspect of not knowing fear and self-doubt be taught in any other martial art? I know a course in Colerado called RMCAT that, no matter what martial art you study (or even if you don't study at all), is all about making it more effective through training exercises meant to make you experience and help understand the Fight or Flight reaction and when to use which aspects at which point in a confrontation where you would actually have to fight.

I'm not saying that Sambo is crap or anything. I'm really glad that Sambo has Scientists giving approal over techniques in terms of the damage it will cause and stuff and it's really cool that they teach the psycholgical aspect of it. However, trainging at the right gym or dojo or whatever will give you that feeling as well.

[ec2188]

uh for the whole survival aspect, those were original core beliefs in ninjutsu and kenjutsu as well and can be found in many of their variants. are u saying that it makes those styles superior to others?