Muay Thai vs Western Boxing

[Hibernatus]

Can't the psychological aspect of not knowing fear and self-doubt be taught in any other martial art?

Sure they can be, however SAMBO specializes in this area. In SAMBO, we are talking about a concrete system devised to prepare a fighter for any situation with the use of scientific research in psychology. And I'll bet my money on science over 1000 year old tradition of some other MA anytime. Yes, there are other self-defense arts like Ninjutsu that were designed for purely real combat reasons, and therefore give lots of focus on survival skills. But this style is very outdated in terms of its techniques and applications to today's world. When it comes to self-defense, SAMBO has the best of two worlds, truly effective technique and strong psychological training. But again, SAMBO as a self-defense system (though there's also a version of this art devised for sport). And if self-defense is what you are looking for, it makes sense to train in an art which specializes in it. The difference between a self-defense style and a competitive style is in the mentality and application with which each of these is taught. Muay Thai and Western Boxing are badass competitive MAs, no doubt about it. But these are taught primarily with the focus on competition, not real-life threats. So while you can use them in self-defense, it makes no sense to learn them over specialized self-defense systems if you are interested primarily in surviving rather than competing. That is all.

[Shard]

Science is just beginning to understand and realised what has been understood and realised for generations. Don't think that science is so infallible. If it was, then why hasn't science provided Answers to so many burning questions?
But then again, Much of tradition is based on Myth and supersition. although through their 1000 years they have gotten some things right.

Mt and Boxing have all the basics need for street survival. Psychology wise, if these people are ready to beat the shit out of someone in the ring, chance are they'll do pretty well outside of it too.
If one really wants to talk about Serious Street SD then one also has to be fully aware not just of the fight itself but possible repercussions after the fight.Yes, surviving the fight is one fo the top priorities but there not much use in surviving the fight only to die 3 mins later.
You may win the battle but the guy you just beat could be waiting outside the bar with a shotgun. Not to mention possible legal and criminal charges that may occur as a result of the fight? Then there's also the possibility of any personal venedattas that could result because of the fight and one that could last generations upon generations? May your family suffer as long as my family exists!(those still exist in less well to do areas)

Back on topic,Like so many other have said: There are so many variables and factors that would affect the fighters concerned. But i feel if both of them were equally skilled and prepared and conditions are right, the MT fighter would have a better chance of winning but not much more than +/ -(5%). The fight could go to either contender.

[Hibernatus]

Science is just beginning to understand and realised what has been understood and realised for generations. Don't think that science is so infallible. If it was, then why hasn't science provided Answers to so many burning questions?

Well, actually science is infallible. It's just that humans have limitations as to what they can comprehend and can make mistakes in the way they use science. However, tradition vs observation and analysis? I'll take science any day. In the case of SAMBO, "science" was doing research and analysis of all major MAs and combining them into a practical self-defense system with a lot of emphasis on the exhaustive psychological preparation of the soldier. Is SAMBO perfect? Nobody would claim that. But the enormous amount of work that went into creating it combined with the scientific approach makes it pretty darn close. Otherwise they wouldn't teach it to the elites of the most powerful army in the world at the time.

Mt and Boxing have all the basics need for street survival. Psychology wise, if these people are ready to beat the shit out of someone in the ring, chance are they'll do pretty well outside of it too.

Like I said, these sports can obviously be used in self-defense. MT or Boxing can be a part of a complete self-defense system, but I think it is important to realize that they put main emphasis on fighting in a ring, with some kind of rules and limitations, and are primarily practicing against opponents of the same sport and similar body weight. Yes, a decent MT fighter will have no problem fighting an average bully. But the bottom line is that he is more likely to end up in a real-life situation for which he isnt prepared for than someone with a complete self-defense system like SAMBO. And thats the word.

[jubaji]

Well, actually science is infallible. It's just that humans have limitations as to what they can comprehend and can make mistakes in the way they use science.

LOL

You religious fundamentalists are funny!

[Hibernatus]

Lol, how am I a religious fundamentalist?

[seppuku]

sickens me to think i may be agreeing with jubaji, but here it goes.
youve put all your faith in science. thats about the same as putting all your faith in god. science is a religion in many respects, the only difference is it updates and improves on its ideas as tiem goes by, unlike Christianity etc.

if your gonna be so sure science is infallible, yep you are a religious fundamentalist and every bit as confused as all the others. science is far from infallible, at best its an attempt to understand our surroundings and control them such as we can. the entirety of science is based on modelling, comparing things to our surroundings. since every metaphor breaks down if you push it hard enough, science by definition cannot be infallible

jubaji is still a cock however

[ec2188]

science is not infallible, todays "laws" are broken, remade, and new theories about the same subject arise each and every day. in terms of science vs tradition, its hard to argue with either one. on one hand u have something thats rooted in fact and can be "proven" to work, on the other u have something thats already proven itself completely capable through 2000 years of experience. Samurai,ninja, and shaolin monks were among the most well rounded and skilled fighters of any era and don't tell me that they didnt use their skills outside the ring. they were extremely able in the use of grappling, striking, deflecting, bows, swords, staffs, knives, and spears (as well as spades for shaolin monks). Sambo doesnt teach the use of weaponry so what happens if it turns into a swordfight? or if the opponents have a staff, knife, or other weapon what happens then? Id rather have a neo-samurai (ie sum1 fluent in aiki-jujutsu, kenjutsu, and the various forms of weapons arts) than a sambo fighter on my side.

[Hibernatus]

My definition of science is such: I see science as a constantly evolving body of knowledge that isnt limited by any laws or rules(though it can be used to create them). In science, when something better is discovered, it replaces what is now impractical or no longer true. Tradition, however, often gets involved into science and thats where the problems arise. People refusing to evolve knowledge just because of their attachment to the old ways. Science, in its principle, is as perfect of a system as you can get. But like I said in the previous post, people (scientists) make mistakes or they simply have different perspectives on things due to the limitations of individual perception, etc. And science is not to be blamed for that. So what you get is an idealistic system tarnished by our own imperfection. But it will work for us as long as we are willing to admit this and move on. When has science as a system ever failed you? Were you ever unable to improve your skills or your lifestyle because science says, "you cant?" Have our lives not DRASTICALLY improved over the last century thanks to science? Science (unlike tradition) is open to any possibilities, that's what makes it infallible in my mind. You are free to comment, but I will have to stop my argument right here since this is just way off topic.

ec2188, you are talking about sport sambo. Combative sambo is a self-defense-system. Jujutsu and Judo are very much a part of it, as well as many other arts. It employs a variety of disarming techniques against common weapons as well as learning how to use environment to your own advantage. I do not deny that other self-defense systems are effective. Sambo is just an example of my personal favorite because it is very applicable to modern world SD situations and it employs an extensive psychological preparation. If you like some other form of SD, that's fine with me. It's a matter of personal preference.

My real argument was about learning sports version of MA for purposes of self-defense. There is a combative form of MT that will fit for the purposes of SD just fine, but thats not the form most people are learning. All I'm saying is that people get a false impression that sport MA is the only option to adequately prepare yourself to face any real world situation just because they learn how to kick ass in the ring. Another issue is the big amount of time it takes before one can use sport MA effectively in SD situations vs a direct and fully applicable system of learning of a combative art. Therefore, IMHO, it makes no practical sense to learn sport MA if all you want is SD. Learning combative art makes way more sense. I realize that many of you disagree with this point and I highly value all of your arguments.

[seppuku]

There is a combative form of MT that will fit for the purposes of SD just fine, but thats not the form most people are learning.

I realize that many of you disagree with this point and I highly value all of your arguments.

1st part... say what? i thought there was only one type? can you breifly describe the differences?

2nd... theres some arguments on here that just arent worth listening to. nothing like all, but a fair few are incoherent/repetitive/misinformed. i just dont believe you on that point really...

Sambo sounds pretty good from what you say but ive never heard of a club nearby. i may find it at uni, if so ill give it a try. i think muay thai can be useful on the street, the conditioning and being used to handling fists moving at your head cant hurt. i follow the policy of see a blade and run like hell. dont yet know what to do about being nutted tho

btw, damn good first paragraph. would be difficult to agree more with that

[Hibernatus]

say what? i thought there was only one type? can you breifly describe the differences?

The combative form is what they teach to Thai soldiers. Combative Muay Thai has grappling, throwing, and ground fighting. It is real-combat oriented and defense against weapons is included. Sport version is heavily stripped and is designed more for entertainment. One old MT teacher said that in the battle field, a good soldier had to be able to kill an enemy within seven moves exchanged between him and the person whom he fought. If he could not do that, then he was not a good soldier, but a dead one.

i just dont believe you on that point really...

That's fine, just remember, in sport versions of MA, you are not being trained to defend your life, you are being trained to be entertaining on the ring.

Sambo sounds pretty good from what you say but ive never heard of a club nearby.

Combative sambo will be especially hard to come by. Here's some good info on differences in Sambo types. http://www.atlantamartialarts.com/styles/sambo.htm

btw, damn good first paragraph. would be difficult to agree more with that

Thanks, I'm glad we can agree on this.

[white devil]

A boxer might have a good chance because, MT fighters has their hands too high protecting their heads n not protecting their bodies. So a boxer will step inside n start hitting the body. Also MT fighters legs are kind of straight and they wont be very mobel to get away when a boxer steps in.

There is a technique commonly used by boxers that is called ''drawing''..in fact most of them do raise their hands high (as high as the muay thai stance)..They do so in order to ''draw'' their opponent to throw an expected attack (which is lets say a blow to the body)..thus they can time the proper counter.Its not possible anyways to block your whole body&head at the same time and that,in any system or style...Your guard goes up and down..If it we were in that kind of world the fights would be like '' the first one to break the other's guard wins'' and we would be watching slug fests everytime.

Actually,im not a thai boxer myself but ive read in JunFan/JKD - The Textbook by Tim Tackett and Chris Kent that muay thai practionners raise their hands this high to draw leads as well...
oh and by the way..muay thai fighter protect their bodies with their knees as well..And for the MT legs being kind of straight and not being very mobile ..thats only an illusion buddy..muay thai adepts have very good footwork and are very mobile..Please back up your arguments with sources next time bro..youre gonna make all the newbies believe in your false theories?

Who would win between a MT fighter and a Boxer?

Pretending that we raise two identical clones with the same DNA in the same environement..for the same amount of years we put them respectively through muay thai and western boxing ..the two trainers of the two arts being two clones as well with the same DNA raised in the same environement..They train the same amount of time in their style and give their 100% every workout...They do not speak to or see anybody until their big fight.The two fighter have the same mental state the big day arrived and they fight in a neutral environement when nobody else is here but them...
Who will win then? The answer is : i dont know..noone does..in fact how the hell could anyone know?id say they'd have 50% chances each,or not..Each fighter will try to adapt the fight to his respective style.

btw anybody want to buy a closet full of 1st place point sparring trophies for 2$ I'll also throw in a 1st degere bb in wtf tkd with id card and kukkiwon diploma LOL btw you can have the years of wasted fucking time for free

hey hey is the closet still for sale man or am i too late?what kind of throphies are we talking about here?

[Tom Yum]

Pretending that we raise two identical clones with the same DNA in the same environement..for the same amount of years we put them respectively through muay thai and western boxing ..the two trainers of the two arts being two clones as well with the same DNA raised in the same environement..

That's it. No more manga or anime for you!

[white devil]

That's it. No more manga or anime for you!

In fact,youre not even writing this..im just imaginating this forum..actually we are all a hundred thousand miles away strapped to chairs with big tubes coming out of our heads and we are basicaly only dreaming this life..we are all a simulation of the matrix..im telling you its useless to fight!!

[Shard]

Mix the two together. Traditionally, the majority of Muay Thai punches were arm punches. After some exposure to boxing a few fighters had the foresight to add in boxing style punches into their arsenal. These fighters began to win over the others who stuck with arm power over hip power. So more and more fighters began to use boxing style punches.

If you join a MT school, chances are you'll learn a touch of boxing as well. Ifi were you i'd go for MT.

[bigred389]

Wasn't there a K-1 event that pitted a bunch of boxers against a bunch of Muay Thai guys?

I recall some of the fights ending pretty quickly via leg kick.