Organizations ?

[marino13]

Hey I know this is a thai boxing association forum, but I was wondering about this organization as opposed to Vut Kamnark's. I currently train in Muay thai, but I want to join an organization and some day hope to teach. I want to join for seminars and just to belong to something. I want to know the pros and cons of each association. What do you guys think of Vut and his association ? Also Chai and his ? Thanks for any advice.

[Khun Kao]

Being part of an organization is not needed. If you want to teach and coach, you simply have to have the skills to do so. I'm not a member of any organization, though I've worked with many over the years.

Really the only real benefit that I can think of (and a damned GOOD benefit!) is the built-in networking. By being part of either of those organizations as an instructor or coach, you are part of a pretty vast network of other fighters and coaches that are all there to support you. There is a built-in seminar network, travel network, student/teacher/fighter/event referrals.....

But it still comes back to you. YOU have to have the skills in the first place to stand on your own as a teacher or coach.

I'm rambling. You get the idea. I am not part of any association so I can't really comment on the pro's and con's of one versus another.

[marino13]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not qualified to teach as of yet, I've only been in Muay Thai for about 8 months, but I would love to learn from the best, and be apart of a system.

[Brian]

I cannot speak for any other "organization". But what I can say is that it was love at first bite for me with the Thai Boxing Association of the USA. I've never felt the need to try anything else.

Within the system I've never once heard anyone speak poorly of another instructor or organization, VUT, Master Toddy, Sakasem Kanthawong, an others included. In fact I beileve I've heard Khuen Khru Terry Tippie even encourage people to broaden their horizons and train with others such as the Fairtex camp and such. So by endorsing the TBA here I am in no way trying to discredit or disrespect any of the other camps/gyms/organizations out there.

But there are so many things that the TBA has to offer. On a technical level, Ajarn Surachai Sirisute is an absolute master instructor. I remember in 2003 he changed the way we throw elbows by about 1/4th an inch. We used to hold the guarding hand near center of the forehead, after the change we hold it just above the side of the eyebrow. I remeber asking him why, and he said to accomodate training with the glove and provide better vision. I really like Ajarn and the TBA teaching method. The instructors can tell you exactly why and how you do each piece of a technique, I've trained with instructors from other camps that have over 200 fights under their belts, Lumpini stadium champs. They are spectacular fighters, and I have learned much under their tutalage, but their teaching abilities, although quite sound, aren't as articulate as what I am accustomed to seeing in the TBA and they don't seem as skilled when it comes to communicating their knowledge and experience to a hack like me.

The techniques themselves hold water. I've had the good fortune of working with UFC fighter (Jeff Curran), and a WKA, IKF World Champion (Kwame Stephens), and I am sure pleanty others at the Thai Camp and in no way am I implying that I out did them in any way, but I do feel like the skills I have learned from the TBA through it's many qualified instructors (Khuen Khru Will Bernales, Khuen Khru Mateo De Los Reyes, Khuen Khru Leonard Trigg, Khuen Khru Jeff Jones, Khuen Khru Mike Lee, Khuen Khru Scott, Khuen Khru Greg Nelson, Khuen Khru David, Khuen Khru Tracy Shank, Khuen Khru Nat Mcintyre, Khuen Khru Mike Walrath, Khuen Khru Steve, Khuen Khru Ken Koning (sp?) and the list goes on) enabled me to put up a decent effort and give them a respectable energy during our workouts (i.e. I wasn't eaten alive).

We have passed the techniques on and produced a 2 time, undefeated No Holds Barred champion, and Fighter of the Year in an ongoing local event called the Ultimate Combat Experience.

But this is just part of the allure. For me the biggest draw is to feel the real family atmosphere of the TBA. I can't tell you how warm and friendly everyone is. I remeber showing up at my first Oregon Thai Camp (who wouldn't). I was scared and nervous and the first thing that went down was Khuen Khru Jeff Jones, Khuen Khru Scott Anderson, and Khuen Khru Mike Lee, invited Khuen Khru Will Bernales and myself to have lunch with them (Khuen Khru Jeff Jones is one of the head fighter group leaders). They then offered to drive us from the airport to camp and proceeded to help us get situated once we were there. Hell, one night Khuen Khru Mike Lee even washed and folded my laundry for me.

The next year we went to Camp Wilkerson, and I hadden't packed anything very warm since the year before, it was beautiful and temperate weather. It was freezing at camp Wilkerson and Sensei Erik Paulson, who really didn't know me from Adam, litterally gave me the pants off his legs. Straight up gave them to me so I wouldn't catch pneumonia on the morning runs.

I don't know what else to say but that I love the TBA. Long live the Thai Boxing Association of the USA, long live Ajarn Surachai Sirisute!

[john888]

I understand where you are coming from with the organization question. As I have said in many forums Thai Boxing is a very popular martial art. There are many instructors who have jumped on the band wagon without fully understanding the history, philisophies and techniques of Thai Boxing. They see it as an aggressive and effective martial art. However if you understand the before mention you would see it in a different light. If Thai Boxing is taught in the wrong way it will be learnt in the wrong way as well.

Keeping this is mind it is better, in my view, to join an established organisation who have structure, disipline, understanding and qualifications that support Thai Boxing as a sport. I am not saying that instructors who do not belong to an organisation are bad. I am just saying that their are students out there who want different things from Thai Boxing, and belonging to an organisation is one of them. A long established organisation is Master Sken's Sitnarong International Muay Thai Association (S.I.M.T.A). More details can be found at http://www.mastersken.com/html/simta.htm about this organisation.

I hope this helps.

John

[silapathai]

hmm

An organization isn't really needed in muay thai if you have the skills like khun kao stated. I myself belong to the M.T.I.A.(muay thai international association) which is under Master Toddy. The reason for which I did this was because I started out as a student under the M.T.I.A. and wanted to spend some one on one time training with Master Toddy since I remember watching videos of him teaching since I was a teen. I also did it because my former instructor didnt' like me teaching on my own(even though back in '98 or '99 he told me I could promote my own students to such a "rank") and was spreading rumours behind my back that I wasn't certified to teach...*rolls eyes*. Most people in the Muay Thai community(about 99% of instructors)could care less what association you belong to if you can create quality students/fighters.
What I encountered with my former instructor is rare and probably wouldn't happen to you. I almost went with Fairtex myself..with an association like the M.T.I.A. we have sash rankings for the levels of practitioner. Yes, in Thailand they don't do this in Muay Thai and this is obviously a westernized approach but it works. Like Khun Kao stated you have a lot of other people you can network with being part of an association but you can still do this if you have the experience to teach without belonging to an association.

[marino13]

Thanks for all the replies. I've only been involved in muay thai for about a year now, so I'm not really qaulified to teach yet. I someday want to teach though. The school that I'm currently at doesn't have much of a set curriculam. I'm interested to see how others go about teaching, and dealing with new people in the art.

Richie

[john888]

This is something I feel strongly about. There are too many teachers/instructors in martial arts who teach without fully understanding the art they are teaching. This is because martial arts are not regulated and to become a teacher/instructor you do not have to conform to a standard, unless you belong to an assoication. Basically anyone can become a teacher all they need is insurance to cover themselves and their students and a venue to teach. This is something i really disagree with. I believe that if you are a teacher you should have the following: skill and technique, first aid qualifications, insurance, knowledge of the art, belong to a central registeration agency like doormen have to do and treat it as a business rather than a hobby. Afterall you are teaching a potentially dangerous art.

[silapathai]

john888

I can understand your point of view but all of the fake instructors out there are known to any of the real instructors...here in WA state I know of one, possibly 2 fake individuals teaching muay thai...what I mean by that is that they have crap for experience in muay thai but think because they know some boxing and can throw a half assed leg kick that they're qualified to teach muay thai. We used to have one such school in the tacoma, WA area that eventually closed down due to lack of students...the head instructor/owner at this school had legitimate ranks/background in other martial arts but was teaching some crappy style of kickboxing and advertising it as muay thai.
I feel that I've been in martial arts long enough to spot a fraud by watching them teach/train/and even by talking to the person for a few minutes about martial arts. I like the Muay Thai association I belong to and know it's legit even though it does use a westernized sash ranking system... I myself feel that I'm slowly but surely moving on towards more a "kickboxing" style because I like to muay thai and other non-muay thai techniques...
I was once employed to teach Muay Thai and Karate by this business man that owned a school but wasn't an instructor..anyway he thought he would find a "subtitute" karate instructor if I was ever sick or what have you...one such individual was a supposed 7th degree black belt in some style of Karate that I didn't even hear of until I met him...no warning flag yet because there are a lot of styles. Anyhoo, this individual watches me teach class and talks to me while I have the kids take a water break..he tells me "I don't know all the fancy terms you're using", I was using very basic karate terms because this was a class of white-yellow belts..first warning flag. I'm having my students work on a very basic kata/form..pinan shodan and than mr. 7th Dan tells me he doesn't know this kata and has never seen it..final warning flag that he's a karate fraud. Oh, and another thing is he watched me teach a muay thai class but had no idea that it was muay thai and possibly never even seen muay thai..the reason why I say this is because he tells me that he teaches the "street fighting stuff" that I teach in private lessons...hahaha, I didn't know what to say because I was just teaching muay thai and no "street fighting stuff".
I don't know what to say except that you can't really do anything about these fakes but grin and laugh. Just go to e-budo.com and look at the baffling or bad budo section sometimes and you'll see a lot of wack jobs out there.

[WMTI]

If you are in Ontario Canada, you will need to belong to the CAMTAO if you are wishing to compete or enter fighters into competition.
CAMTAO is the ONLY organization in Canada atm that has government recognition, and authorized to sanction events.
Just a heads up incase you were in our neck of the woods.
cam_taovp@hotmail.com