thai kicks.

[EmptyneSs]

u know, ive seen a few of these videos on the net now, were a guy throws a thai roundhouse and breaks his leg on the opponents block and whatnot. seeing this has had me thinking about how safe kicking people with your shins is. is the risk of this happening pretty big? i mean, u can break your leg on just about any of his bones. ive never used my shins bare bones vs another person, ive always had shin pads on for safety so i dont really know. my shins stilll need a few more years of conditioning before i can even think of using it in real life and not hurt myself. i know that the point of the kick is to be set up by other strikes in order to land it safely and with full force just above the opponents knee, but u can always miss and hit something u didnt want to hit. do any of u more experienced kickboxers have any advice on this? any of u used your kicks in real life, outside of the gym? whats the deal?

[Blue Wave Gym]

well I'll tell you this

don't kick a metal pole to deaden the nerves in your shins cause when you fight someone and you beat them so severely in the body you almost break your leg you won't know it till the next day cause of the being numb thing. I'm all for using the shins in kicking but there is a risk of leg fracture so aim for only soft areas like the stomach, floating ribs or face.

[SamuraiGuy]

Or thigh... leg kicks.. pimp pimp....

leg kick em until thye dont want to stand up anymore, take em down, punch their face in.... forget high kicks...

Edit; sorry forgot this was thai forum.... maybe dont take them down.. as that would be illegal... just uhh... yeah kick em in the leg anyway.

[Derekwl]

Unfortunately I've been in a situation where I have had to use some of my Muay Thai skills (but I am in no way experienced, only 4 months of training).

A guy tried to break into my best friends house while me and him were there, he was unarmed (thankfully) but knocked out my friend with a sucker punch. Since I've sparred quite a bit and I use the low Thai kick a lot, that was my first instinct, and I used it, and his leg collapsed (found out later that there was deep tissue scarring from the kick), and we called the police while he was on the ground. My shin was fine as it was a clean kick and didnt hit his knee, but against someone who knows how to block (i.e. shin to shin blocking), I would highly suggest not leg kicking as many injuries (and MAJOR pain) can come about without proper conditioning.

I hope that helps, and its VERY rare for legs to break like you have seen in those videos, and (according to a doctor I had to see for my calcium deposits on my knuckles) supposedly those major injuries happen only when a past injury is left unsaid and the person has not disclosed a bone/major tissue injury.

[Maxx]

Safety of low line kicking

Based on my experience, I'd say that low line kicking to the thigh is relatively safe compared to kicking to other areas such as the body or the head. There are a couple of reasons for this.

1: Kicking to the body can often result in catching an elbow or other sharp part of the body that could cause severe pain or damage, particularly to someone without properly conditioned shins.

2: Kicking to the head whil probably the safest with regard to avoiding injuries to ones self is inherently risky due to the fact that it can put you in an off balance position.

Kicking to the legs is probably the safest. Most people, even experienced martial artists will generally role with the attack, lacking proper knowledge of how to deal with the attack. Secondly those people who have done some muay thai generally haven't done enough to really commit fully to a proper shin block. The shin will be lifted to the front more than to the side because if you haven't done a lot of conditioning, it still hurts. Also, most people who will shin block will generally lift their shins a little too high to sufficiently discourage an opponent or seriously injure him.

If you watch that video, assuming it's the one that I'm thinking of, you'll notice that the defender barely lifts his leg off the ground. Really damaging blocks are done with the area of the shin just below the knee. It's the hardest and most immobile part of the shin so when a kick hits it, it's like kicking the corner of a brick wall. The majority of people out there generally lack the knowledge or level of conditioning necessary to apply a shin block like the one you are talking about.

If it still worries you though, practice being a little bit more indirect. WOrk on some feints. Fake high and attack low. That will increase your chances of avoiding en injury whether intentional or accidental.

[Muay Thai Guy]

My shins are really tuff and I cant feel no pain when anyone kicks them or when I kick the corner of a wall. I ask everyone at my school to kick them shin to shin and they either say no because they have done it before or they do it and limp away.

[Streetprince]

My shins are really tuff and I cant feel no pain when anyone kicks them or when I kick the corner of a wall. I ask everyone at my school to kick them shin to shin and they either say no because they have done it before or they do it and limp away.

are they waering BOOTS?

[WhiteTiger]

My expreince

I think that guy how kicks there has a bad shin. That normaly dont hapen. Look at the Thais for exempel. Thay kick really hard and there shins dont brake. But When I was In Thailand I kickt on there bags and that are hard as concrete. so thay harden there shins there. But dont kick on metal things and so on. But I think that you suldent be afried of braking youre shine.

[Timberwolf]

my analysis

I have done Muay Thai for quite a while and what you learn is that against a conditioned fighter that is possible (not very), but in competition sport your opponent has conditioned his body just as you have. most guys on the streets don't really condition their shins that way. it is not very likely to break your shins kicking a guy on the streets if you are moderate to advanced in kicking.

[djcaldwell]

ive always had shin pads on for safety so i dont really know. my shins stilll need a few more years of conditioning before i can even think of using it in real life and not hurt myself. i know that the point of the kick is to be set up by other strikes in order to land it safely and with full force just above the opponents knee, but u can always miss and hit something u didnt want to hit. do any of u more experienced kickboxers have any advice on this? any of u used your kicks in real life, outside of the gym? whats the deal?

In the beginning shin pads are the right thing to do. As for a few more years of conditioning - if you are doing it properly then you will start to notice the difference in a few months. Obviously years down the line you will be much better off but the conditioning does start sooner than that. When kicking there is ALWAYS the chance that it is going to be blocked or you may miscalculate or your opponent moves and you hit something you didn't want to but if your conditioning you may feel it but you'll most likely not break your leg. I've kicked and hit everything from Shins to elbows on my shins and yeah sometimes even after conditioning it still hurts. But no where near what it would if I hadn't. Don't let the fear of some freak occurance deter you from using the kicks as they were ment to be used.

As for the advise part of your question - you need to make sure you are conditioning your shins kicking the bag with the middle of the shin - don't cheat and use the meaty part. The muscular part of the leg can take more than the bony part which is what you need to work on. DO NOT kick anything harder than a bag in the beginning. You can seriously damage your leg. Deading the nerves is not the goal...desensitation is. You want to build them up gradually to a level when you kick a 400 or 700 lb bannana bag it's like when you were kicking that 75lb bad when you started. After kicking you MUST rub out your shins. If you don't you are going to get shin splints and/or nice stagnations in your leg in form of bumps that when you hit the bag are going to hurt even more. Ask your teacher about the conditioning you should be doing if you are kicking the bag and/or sparring and using your shins.

Otherwise, keep on the path and remember your goal is not go bone to bone but as someone else pointed out is to go for thigh, inner thigh, sides (ribs) - if you can pull off those crazy head kicks great but they don't always work out so well and tend to leave you more vulnerable.

Good Luck

[seppuku]

After kicking you MUST rub out your shins. If you don't you are going to get shin splints and/or nice stagnations in your leg in form of bumps that when you hit the bag are going to hurt even more.

what would rubbing out my shins be? also what are shin splints and stagnations? that aside.. where is the problem to kicking lamposts. it seems inherently a stupid idea, but exactly what can go wrong with that? shin conditioning is a new idea for me, tho they are toughening up rapidly enough. hit an elbow at least once and would rather not do that again

any suggestions/explanations would be welcome thx

[djcaldwell]

what would rubbing out my shins be? also what are shin splints and stagnations? that aside.. where is the problem to kicking lamposts. it seems inherently a stupid idea, but exactly what can go wrong with that? shin conditioning is a new idea for me, tho they are toughening up rapidly enough. hit an elbow at least once and would rather not do that again

any suggestions/explanations would be welcome thx

Starting with the kicking of the lamppost. Eventually you will be able to kick harder things but the problem for people here or even in Thailand when they train hard to deaden the nerves is this: The nerves die. So yes after contant kicking of bannana trees/lamp posts or what have you you beat your nerves litterally to death and this not only can but most likely will result in atrophy of the muscles in the future. So whereas you will be an awesome powerful no pain feeling kicker for a couple of years maybe...eventually you are going to be a cripple. Not the goal we're trying to attain here.

Start training by kicking a light bag 75lbs - do it 25 to 50 times each leg to start out - if you can handle more then try to reach 100 times each leg. If you kick up to 100 times each day or every other day you will see significant difference. Now after kicking using Thai Boxing linement or similar apply it to your shins and with preferrably a solid glass bottle (Corona bottle or coke bottle w/out the ridges) you are going to rub in a downward motion your shins. You break the shin up into 3 sections Left, Middle and Right. Rub down each side 30 times with moderate to hard pressure. This does a couple of things. First it helps to avoid stagnation of Chi in your legs - if you don't belive in Chi then go with the it will help prevent blood clots in your or calcifications in the shins (calcifications in the muscle are what shin splints are - they are common in runners the muscles get hard in spots and the fibers tear causing pain when you run or perform activities with shock factors). The rubbing helps to break up these things. Secondly, along with the kicking of the bag it helps to increase bone density which is the goal you want to make your bones stronger. Finally, it very subtlely helps to shape the bone making it more appropriate for striking.

You can get Thai Boxing Linement online - google it and you'll probably find a ton of sights that offer it. Hope that helps you some.

[Garland]

OKAY,

It is HIGHLY unlikely to break your shin on somebody's shin. The shin is a VERY strong bone. I've seen that video...the guy allegedly had some sort of marrow problem, and his bones were brittle to begin with. I've seen people kick through baseball bats before...
When I used to get pissed off...I would kick a hardwood tree in my backyard ...and sometimes when I'm bored as hell at work, I go into the parking garage and tap my shins against a round concrete pillar. This isn't smart. It doesn't really accomplish anything...but you know what...I like to do it, so there. If you're going to hit something hard...go lightly at first, timing sparring style...and then harder...but not full force. (Would you punch a concrete piller full force? The top of your head is hard...would you ram it??? The answer is...I might...because I have issues...but a rational person wouldn't.)

Thai boxing liniment will NOT help harden your bones...it is essentially camphor and menthol and is used for bruising, just like vic's, icey hot, or woodlick oil.

The only decent way to harden your shin is to kick a heavy bag day in, day out. I've had people tell me how to deaden the nerves...but it is a painful and unneccesary process (try stripping the skin off with a wet towel twisted over, 100 x each part of your shin, middle, right, left.) When you kick the heavy bag every day, and do roadwork, your legs will be strong, your shins will be...conditioned to take damage, just like running on a treadmill or jumping rope as cardio conditioning.

I HAVE had chunks taken out of my skin, leaving scars from catching elbows or shin to shin...but that's all that happened...they swelled up like goose-eggs... I R.I.C.E. them, cleaned up the cut...and now...aside from the scars...they're not a problem.

MUAY THAI = LEG KICKS!!!

IT IS A SPECIALTY OF OUR ART...if you lose it...you might as well drop the elbows, and knees, and throw on a Karate Gi...just not a Kyokushin one...because they leg kick too.
Better yet...you don't like to leg kick? Take up tae kwon do.

[djcaldwell]

Sorry, maybe I didn't express that properly. The linement is not what helps increase the bone density it is the hitting and the rubbing. The linement is a) lubrication for when you are rubbing b) works to help w/ circulation nothing more.

I agree with you totally on the bag training - I do it every other day though just to give them a rest. As for stripping skin off - HELL NO!! You couldn't pay me to do it!!

But rubbing out your shins is important.

[seppuku]

yeah tha makes sense... thx ppl. if i can only find a glass bottle anyway... i might have to go buy lager again