The Real Martial Art

[chalambok]

"A man who has made his money through a scam is more respected than a man who has made his money through hard work, because the ethic...is quick upward mobility and a scam is a shortcut. A scam shows good business sense and a quick mind. Anyone can work hard and make money. What's to admire about that?" - Suketu Mehta

Is this what the martial arts have become, a venue for those who are willing to lie, posture or simply purchase accreditation? Are students so stupid as to completely lose all sense, never asking about teacher qualifications if the location is in a socially acceptable part of town? Are even the most reputable associations being used by unscrupulous entrepreneurs? I think so. And here are some examples right here in Portland, Oregon, USA; where I live.

A few years ago I taught muay Thai for a school that advertised Gracie Jujitsu; until the Gracie Brothers found out. It was then changed to Brazilian Jujitsu for a while. The other day I noticed they now teach Machado Jujitsu. Do the Machados know about this? I can only hope that school changed their ways, but I doubt it. They claimed to teach muay Thai until earlier this summer when they decided they taught a 'better' form of kickboxing, unrestrained by the limits of muay Thai. I remember a senior associate taking pictures of my class for 'advertising' purposes, only to find later he was teaching muay Thai 4 nights a week, while allowing me 2 nights, sometimes changing my hours from Mondays & Thursdays to Wednesdays and Saturday mornings with less than a week's notice. And honestly, they had 3 trophies in their trophy case that were for bowling!!

Currently there is a 'muay Thai' school claiming to have teaching permission from Master Chai and Professor Leonard Trigg. I ask them, what do you have in writing? The few times I have even seen the owner/senior instructor talking with Master Chai he has been promising to test at the very next seminar. This has been his promise for 6 years now. Do you think he will test? Me neither. Meanwhile he uses the Thai Boxing Association logo, and recently has been offering muay kacheuk and muay Thai Boran. Since I know or have contact with everyone in North America who is qualified to teach these arts, I can unequivocally state he is a liar. But does it mean anything, really?

The sad thing is both of the forementioned schools are commercially successful. Should that be the litmus test, profitability? Any person can claim to teach any martial art, so long as he does not use a trademarked name or logo without permission. Absorb what is useful, throw away what doesn't work for you, add what is totally your own. This is a useful mantra to those who have no control over their ego, but Jeet Kune Do itself cannot rein in the plethora of charlatans using Bruce Lee's name, so what chance do I have to prevent people from being ripped off by those who couldn't slide the spit bucket into the ring in Thailand?

I first came to this forum because Master Chai told me to start contributing as I am one of his most senior students. Lo and behold there was already a Chalambok submitting here. What the hell? So I wrote him, asking why he was using the name I have been known by and using professionally since 1991, when Master Chai's mother made up the word as my fight name. He said he had heard both Ajarn Dan Inosanto and Master Chai talking about me, and he was using it out of respect!! He also said that his girlfriend had given it to him. Which was it? Anyway, he had enough honor to let me have my name back.

Do you have similar poseurs where you live? Any suggestions? Outing them seems to be no answer at all.

[Tom Yum]

Sort of

Most gyms that i've been to that teach muay thai teach it pretty well, minus sparring with elbows, but on occasion they do elbow drills with the thai pads.

Regarding your story, I have met a group not long ago that teaches muay thai solely (but not MMA). The instructor is not a pro-fighter, but can throw decently hard thai kicks, so-so knees but doen't have much western boxing work. The students range from absolute beginner to so-so; they don't spar.

The instructor won't spar with me; not even light contact. I'd asked a few times if we could just go for 2-3 2 minute rounds, maybe at 60% and he still refused.

However, he emphasizes that he teaches classes mostly for fitness purposes and if that's his goal, I think he's doing well.

[danfaggella]

that annoys me, its like cardio not martial art, it makes me sad.

[EmptyneSs]

Is this what the martial arts have become, a venue for those who are willing to lie, posture or simply purchase accreditation?

this isnt something that only happens in martial arts, this happens everywere, everday, in all parts of life.

[Tom Yum]

Truer words were never uttered. I'm reminded of a conversation that occurred between two business associates as they parted company. The "senior partner" told the first he was making a mistake going out on his own, and that he'd never be able to compete with the quality he himself could offer. His upstart young companion said "You know, you just don't get it. Quality simply doesn't matter."

That young upstart was Bill Gates, and he buried his former partner with the truth of his statement.

Call me old-fashioned, but quality does matter. Doesn't it?

For example, if I am looking to purchase an automobile that will require minimum repairs over its usefull life, quality matters.

When a person looks at a woman as someone whom they may spend the rest of their life with, quality matters.

If you have enough experience in the martial arts and you know the good from the bad, quality matters.

[Garland]

The state of the world continues to sadden me.
if I were to teach anyone anything regarding martial arts...I wouldn't charge them, and I would direct them to my instructors...(I'm trying to start a martial arts club at my college)

I would tell them up-front that the quality of what I can show them is incredibly finite compared to any of my instructors, and the extent of my help would be comparable to a school study partner...for Algebra...which I suck at.

I'd tell them that they could probably teach me as much as I could teach them.

Still...I feel a bit uncomfortable showing too much...out of respect for my instructors...whom I have soooooo much respect for. I have talked to my Khru and he said he'd help a bit and give me his blessing if I outlined the class for him, and went over everything with him first...which I will do before I start the club. If for whatever reason he doesn't give me his blessing....I won't start the club. If my instructors tell me that I do anything overstepping my bounds, or that is any sign of disrespect....I will cease and desist, and offer a written apology.

[Garland]

Where does that come from? The idea that holding back and not sharing the things that were given to you is respectful? I mean no offense with this, and I generally agree with most of what you say here, but it seems to me that if you're teaching at all, you ought to be doing the best you can to make sure the students who come to you are as well informed and skillful as you can possibly make them, yes? If your instructors have given you their stamp of approval to start a club and teach, then teach! An instructor's first responsibility is to make his students the very best that they can be. If they are coming to you, then you owe them that. It's a good thing that you want to show proper respect to your instructors, but in my mind, sending everyone that comes to you for help away because there's someone out there who's better is like passing the buck. So what if you're not the best. You have more than your students do. You're available and you care. Do the best you can with that. It's a lot more than some "experts" have. Respect your instructors, but do it in the way that they have shown respect for their instructors and their art. By passing it on to others like yourself who will value it as much as you have. Nothing ever grew by being kept in the closet.

I agree whole heartedly...but...I didn't word that right.
What I should have said was that I could show them what little I am comfortable enough in my own knowledge to teach.
If I don't fully understand a technique, or I could be showing them something that is completely wrong that could get them hurt...then I shouldn't go into it (but should mention it and cite who originally made me aware of it), isn't that responsible?

[Sircnay]

Do what Garland's sig says and kick them in the neck.

[pittbulldog]

Scam Artists

Wow. Chalambok's words really rang true in my ears. I first started in MT 6 and some change years ago. The guy that I trained under in Richmond, Va, made some great claims, and promised the sky. As time went on, his web of deceit got thinner and thinner, until it was so painfully obvious to everyone, that there was a mass exodus of students. But, he really didn't care, because by then, we were all in 3 year contracts. Fortunatly for me, Frank Cucci, in Va Beach, honored the contract that I was paying the other guy, and allowed me to train at his school. It was a 100 mile drive, each way, 2-3 times a week, but I'm glad that I did it. It gave me the opportunity to meet and train with some great people, and to really grow personally. I really owe a lot to Mr. C for his generosity. Anyway, my first "instructor's" ways continue to this day, and have gotten worse. It's so bad, that he really is a joke to everyone that knows him, and even some of those that have just heard of him. It's sad that someone with so much potential to have a great school let's it all go because he's too lazy to improve himself, and is completely in love with money and himself.
Chalambok, with your permission, I would like to reprint your original post on the Jiu Jitsu Gear forum. I will give you full credit for the post, but I think that a lot of people on the site will be able to relate to what you are saying, and will appreciate it.

[seppuku]

just one question... how/why did you get a 3 year contract with a martial arts school??

[pittbulldog]

3 year contract

Put yourself in the position who is fairly new to martial arts. I had studied some Tae Kwon Do when I was a kid, and some Wing Chun as a teen. I was then in my mid 20's and wanted to get back into martial arts. I went to this school, and the "window dressing" that was presented was great. You first sign a 1 year contract for $XX whatever the monthly fee was. I later heard him refer to his first year students as his "money base". While you are in your first year of the 4 year "Black Belt" program, he really caters to you. You feel that you are learning a lot, and you get lots of personal attention. After you get through your first year, which was really good, and which you really enjoyed, he says, "Well, your contract is up. You can either sign this 3 year contract, and complete the program for the same amount of money, or you can pay monthly for $XX amount of money more per month." After one year of what you thought was great instruction, why would you take the cheaper price for what you were expecting to be more great training. Once you sign it, it's the beginning of the end. But, looking at the bright side, had I not signed the 3 year contract, I would not have felt compelled to continue, and started my training at the Beach. That is where my passion for the martial arts was born. So, I guess every cloud has a silver lining. Today, when I speak with anyone thinking of going to his school, I try not to bash him to hard. I just tell them to ask for documentation as to claims made, and don't sign any contracts, pay monthly.

[seppuku]

how much were you paying? i suspect my gyms really cheap, its like $6 a week. good place tho, cant remember who trained Ian exactly but ill find out sometime. a name ppl recognise tho, Ian really does know his stuff. scary, scary punches... and breaking someones arm through the pads does imply that youve got the technique right...

[pittbulldog]

I think I was paying $75 a month. If it went to monthly payments, it would have been closer to $100. Where do you train?

[seppuku]

in a place called falmouth, in cornwall, england. so its actually 3 pounds, i gave conversion to $ a try thats all. problem the gyms got is that as soon as ppl leave the beginners class, conditioning rears its hed and they all run away cos it hurts a little. well, a lot. ill go find out who trained him now add edit this post with the name

"Ian Davies is the clubs senior instructor, and has over 20 years experience. The majority under the guidance of the legendary Master Sken and the his famous Sitnarong camp. In recent years kru Sandy Holt has played a major part in Ian’s progress" from www.falmouththai.co.uk

a link with most stuff about the guy: http://www.falmouththai.co.uk/index....d=18&Itemid=36

[THT]

how much were you paying? i suspect my gyms really cheap, its like $6 a week. good place tho, cant remember who trained Ian exactly but ill find out sometime. a name ppl recognise tho, Ian really does know his stuff. scary, scary punches... and breaking someones arm through the pads does imply that youve got the technique right...

Or it implies that he should raise rates and buy new pads!!

Sorry I couldn't resist. No disrespect meant.