Damage of lowkicks with/without shinguards

[gabbah]

good post, thanks. the lactate theory i outdated? cheers. ill find the current ideas as soon as i find time.

Well, it doesn't really change the training or anything. It's just that the old theory was that the muscles fibers were actually damaged and then rebuilt. I read a long time ago that it isn't so, the thing that makes the muscle grow is that actual heavy lift. So no need to keep lifting until your muscle is totally filled with lactate. Just keep going until you can't make the positive motion anymore, which should be around 6 reps.

About the thigh conditioning it sure sounds interesting... but since I haven't heard it from elsewhere I will still be a tad bit sceptical. I would like to hear from more experienced people as well, better to have several sources before I start bashing my legs lol.

No broken ribs from kicks lol... well the thing is that in kickboxing you don't have the same sort of guard as in thaiboxing. We keep our elbows more tucked in, so we never take kicks on the ribs (you are not allowed to catch kicks anyway). However, I have adopted a guard which is more towards the thai guard, as it's easier to launch fast kicks because of balance and "counter weight" when your elbows are pointing a little bit outwards. But because I started training with very a very tight guard, I can easily block kicks with my elbows when I need to.
And if someone really loads up on a kick I will see it and easily block it with my shin, putting up "the wall of defense" from thaiboxing.
The thing is, when you are in the ring nothing hurts, because of adrenaline. Sparring hurt more, because I don't have the adrenaline boost then.
But it may also be because of the shin guards. We wear 10oz gloves in matches, 12oz in sparring and no head protection.
So the kickboxing game is more limited than the thaiboxing game. We don't have to look out for knees.
But I'm sure that if I had trained in thaiboxing I would have good defense as well, it's a matter of training mentality and focus on what you need in your game. I watch a lot of fighting (K-1, thaiboxing, pride, UFC) and it's just incredible how good learning material that is. I have analyzed the kicking of Por Pramuk, the defense and calmness of Ramon Dekker, the boxing of Andy Sauer just to name a few. Watch how they do it, you will learn a lot. That will be your mental image of how it's suppose to be done, and you will try to reach it in your training.
Of course, I have damaged my foot and toes from kicking... That is very common. I try to hit with my shin but sometimes you still catch an elbow on your instep...
Well if you've done very little sparring I can understand you are not ready for match. Yeah 10 months is a lot of differance. I had my first full contact match (well actually my first match alltogether, I skipped light contact and club tournaments) when I had been training 9 months.
Yeah I think age matters, but it doesn't HAVE to be that way. I have seen guys 17 years old that act and think very mature, and other guys over 30 acting immature. I think that when you are young you feel you need to prove yourself in the ring, and this makes you more tense. It puts pressure on you, so you feel you HAVE to win. The focus on winning at all cost gives you way too much adrenaline. And you can't focus on staying relaxed and learning. I try to see my matches as normal training nothing else, it's something I have to do, and no matter what happens I will have learned from it.
I'm 26 years old. You?

Btw, I don't think you should be nervous as hell when you sparr. You should be relaxed, and you and your partner should take it easy to begin with. When that feels ok you move up to harder levels. Otherwise you will be all tense and this will keep you away from learning the proper reactions. Instead you will fall back on instinctual reactions, like closing your eyes or turning away from you opponent and such things...

[aseepish]

I know what my trainers would say: run more. Do hill sprints.

[gabbah]

I know what my trainers would say: run more. Do hill sprints.

You mean for thigh conditioning or cardio (or both?).

[seppuku]

I think that when you are young you feel you need to prove yourself in the ring, and this makes you more tense. It puts pressure on you, so you feel you HAVE to win. The focus on winning at all cost gives you way too much adrenaline

yep, definitely feel that. could be worth paying attention to. maybe i should elaborate on the nervousness, this is mostly with one of my friends. he's 30 something i think, 6 foot 4 and about 16 stone. 14 pounds in a stone maybe? well im shorter than him and 5 or 6 stone lighter. slightly intimidating having him punching lol. but im getting better fast at the nervous thing, i dont think itll take long before i dont mind anymore.
that explains a few things actually... i read kickboxing as muay thai for some reason. i think theres a different mentality involved there, and likely to be different training methods. do you use elbows? if youre missing elbows and knees it makes the ring a safer place to be i suppose. but yeah.. low level sparring is fine. last time i sparred i got winded then concussed, after about a minute and 2 minutes respectively. does that cound as medium sparring or heavy? im really not sure

as far as the leg conditioning goes, ask around. i havent heard much mention of it on here tho. i didnt mean your doing things like hitting yourself in the leg with sticks, you and a partner stand opposite each other and exchange shin kicks to the leading leg. gentle at first obviously, then however hard you ask for you should be recieving. either go for what feels slightly uncomfortable, or make sure every kick makes you move and hurts like hell or somewhere in between. turning the leg to hit more on the shin makes a big difference, as does angling the kick more downwards (similar two but slightly different)

hopefully someone on here wil back me up on the conditioning, but i have a feeling last time it came up the best response i got was "thats one way to do it i guess". each to their own

[THT]

we spar with mouthguards and 10 oz gloves normally.

cheers

We use 16 oz. You guys are badasses...

[seppuku]

lol blatently not badasses... ive only got 10 oz for a start. id say im more masochistic than tough, but thanks nonetheless

p.s. well aware that anyone can say anything online... but it pisses me off so i tend to go for honesty. hense talking about getting scared by sparring

[gabbah]

yep, definitely feel that. could be worth paying attention to. maybe i should elaborate on the nervousness, this is mostly with one of my friends. he's 30 something i think, 6 foot 4 and about 16 stone. 14 pounds in a stone maybe? well im shorter than him and 5 or 6 stone lighter. slightly intimidating having him punching lol. but im getting better fast at the nervous thing, i dont think itll take long before i dont mind anymore.

Well when you fight in the ring your opponent will be your size. I'm a small guy so almost all of the guys I sparr with are bigger, so when I get in the ring with a guy my size he looks small and weak haha. :P

that explains a few things actually... i read kickboxing as muay thai for some reason. i think theres a different mentality involved there, and likely to be different training methods. do you use elbows? if youre missing elbows and knees it makes the ring a safer place to be i suppose. but yeah.. low level sparring is fine. last time i sparred i got winded then concussed, after about a minute and 2 minutes respectively. does that cound as medium sparring or heavy? im really not sure

I think the mentality is pretty much the same. If anything, kickboxing is more intense, but shorter matches. No we don't have elbows or knees. So I see how you can be damaged by a knee in a fight. But I can't imagine you guys fight with unpadded elbows?
Getting winded after one minute is a sign that you are tense I would say. But it also depends on how hard you sparr. If you fight someone a lot bigger he should hold back because his extra weight will be very hard on you otherwise. You will not meet such weight in the ring.

[aseepish]

You mean for thigh conditioning or cardio (or both?).

Both. My trainer said that you can get cardio from doing everything else (bag and pad work, etc.), but nothing builds up the legs for taking punishment like running.

It sucks, because I hate running.

[Gunza Kicka]

i`m with seppuku on the leg conditioning, we do it at our gym. with a partner and taking turns (softly at frist) doing round house kicks to the thighs, leading and back leg. also doing the insides of the legs - if that makes sence- kinda like above n behind your knee. i have to say it does work in toughening them up. also squats!! at some nights at our gym. when we have our instructor who loves leg work outs- he makes us do 200+ squats!! hurts but feels good when u do them!!
also try standing in a running stance- one foot in front of the other (like heel and toe touching) bend down so your palms are on the floor and knees bent. then try to straighten (spelling..) your legs (kinda poking ur bum up in the air) while keeping hands on the floor, try 30 reps each leg.. its tough!!!

good post by the way

[ciscodog]

ok here is my routine ..............I dont spar with shin guards at all since I have been conditioning my shins, elbows, etc for a many years. I use my shins to jam an opponents kick, to kick, etc and the worst i get now is some light bruising or perhaps a slight amount of swelling in a spot butt thats it. Hard bones come from specific drills you perform by yourself or with a buddy. By hitting the shin when you kick , the density of the bone becomes greater and the bone then becomes harder. One drill is to stand across from a partner with both hands at a ready position. Your left elbow should hit his left elbow, then the right, and repeat. PLEASE BE CAREFUL NOT TO GO FULL SPEED AS YOU CAN/WILL HURT YOURSELF OR THE OTHER PERSON. For shins I recommend tieing a pad to a tree and then shin kicking the pad. Go light at first and as time goes on use a little more power. When i jam an opponents kick i try to use the top portion of my shin closer to the knee cap, about 3-5 inches away from the bottom of my knee. I have also hurt an opponent by using an elbow to block against an incoming kick. Dont try it if its a low kick or else you have to bend down slightly and that can set you up for a knee/ shin kick to the head. Hope some of this helps . Oh and drink milk!

[Khun Kao]

This is a photo we took of one of our students legs, 5 days after being kicked in the leg. He was holding one of those huge kicking shields over his thigh and still took this kinda damage.

[ciscodog]

it looks worse than it is, mostly surface blood vessel damage, and a green bruise usaully means that its a very slight bruise(in my opinion). Muscle is fiberous and no matter how "hard" it is it can and will always bruise although it wont be a deep muscle bruise. Work on increasing the bone density and the rest is all superficial.

[gabbah]

ciscodog, so you agree that the thigh muscles can be conditioned as well? That the actual muscle is harder and that you recover a lot faster from conditioning them?

[ciscodog]

of course muscle can be conditioned..........and a healthy strong muscle recovers quickly, but bone conditioning is also part of a well rounded routine.

[gabbah]

Yeah but with conditioning I didn't mean working them out with squats and such. I meant kicking the thighs. Do you agree the body adapts by making the muscle harder and recovering faster?