kicking - hip rotation

[garam masala]

ok guys. i've got a TKD background, and i can't do the proper kicking in MT. ie. swivel on your left foot, turn/rotate your hip, bend knee and kick...im used to differnet kicking in TKD.

i can't seen to rotate my hip, or generally that movement. esp when i'm kicking with left leg (i'm right side dominant). also iget this tingly feelign when i do that in my hip area, the nerves or sth not used to it.

is there any stretching or something i can do, to loosen that part up..etc... apart from repeating the kick over and over again?

thanks

[crazyjoe380]

what up big dog.. ask your muay thai coach to help you.. i'm sure he will help you..

[muaythaiguy15]

Hm...Joe is right. Cant help too much online.

[Little Apple]

yeah, ask your coach. Other than that, strech your hip flexors in general or you'll get a bad back in roughly a year or less, and pivet your standing leg. But dude, ask your instructor.

[Damian Mavis]

Hey Garam, I was 3rd degree black belt (12 years) in ITF TKD before I started my muay thai training so I can tell you about my experience. It's difficult to learn a new way to do turning kick but not impossible and when you do finally master it, your TKD training should help make your muay thai kick very strong. The trick is learning how to generate maximum power like your TKD turning kick using new movements. It took me 6 months of muay thai before I really started to get a feel for it. and shortly after that I was nailing it every time with maximum power.

I guess the only technical advice I can give you, the thing that really seperates TKD turning kick and muay thai turning kick is you have to learn to snap your hip. If you are feeling discomfort I think you are doing it wrong. Go slowly and work at it easy to avoid injury. Anyway, snapping the hip is totally a different feeling than TKD, don't raise your leg to kick using the leg muscles, try to learn how to rely solely on kicking with the hip. The best kickers in muay thai snap the hip in and out so fast the kick is like a whip without the chambering of the knee. Bah, hard to describe, basically kick with the hip, not with your leg.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[osxtreme]

One thing you can try is with a partner.. have him hold your leg up at waist level , get on the ball of your standing foot, and work the hip twist and leg bend over and over while he holds your leg, then swich legs and do the same,.

It mostly is a mental thing with people that come from a standard snap kick enviroment.

[kwai chang pain]

Interesting thread. I also have a TKD background and am intrigued by the Muay Thai roundhouse kick.

Lemme ask this....can you get away with throwing a TKD roundhouse and just hitting with the shin instead of the instep?

I understand that won't be a MT roundhouse, but my sole reason for the question is about keeping your foot from getting broken.

[chalambok]

The three most important parts of a Thai kick, in descending order are pivot, swing the arm, and keep the leg straight. To get these correctly, it is easiest to practice kicking over the top of something, like a chair or sofa back, and go a full 360 degrees, with no control, for a long time. After a few thousand repetitions it will be easy. Most people who do not practice going round can only learn to kick their weight, which may still be a hard kick. But a heavy kick means adding strength to your weight, and to get this you must learn to pivot correctly. A heavy kicker can hit about 100 foot-pounds harder than his weight, and this is what you want. It is the difference between getting hit by a baseball bat, and getting hit with a sledge hammer.

[Caddock]

The three most important parts of a Thai kick, in descending order are pivot, swing the arm, and keep the leg straight. To get these correctly, it is easiest to practice kicking over the top of something, like a chair or sofa back, and go a full 360 degrees, with no control, for a long time.

Chalambok, Could you elaborate on keeping the leg straight please? Straight, knee locked, some lesser degree of straight? Which leg?

I regularly practice my kicks over the top of a wavemaster free standing bag. They aren't really heavy enough to kick hard so I started doing it as an alternative exercise. I have been doing it for quite some time now, not everytime but quite often for a round or two. I did find an improvement in my kick that I at least partially attribute to this.

Thanks

[osxtreme]

I think the original question is more of the Thai Cut Kick..Keeping the leg bent and hitting the target low and with downward motion..... the str8 leg would be for more of a head kick and yes kicking over something is great practice.

[Damian Mavis]

Chalambok, leg straight? Knee is always slightly bent at all the places I've trained....

Kwai Chang Pain, no you cannot just do a TKD turning kick but hit with the shin. Trust me I've tried, it leads to more injuries than not. The trick is when you kick muay thai style you focus all your power straight into the target with the shin as the focul point of attack, when I try to do it TKD style I dont get nearly as much power because moving my hips that way and chambering the knee and letting loose don't focus the power being directed through my shin. TKD turning kick gets maximum power by focussing on the instep as the attacking tool. And when sparring/fighting its easier to get injured if you dont do it the muay thai way. Muay thai is a science like boxing, tried and tested a million times in full contact matches. Fighters learn real fast not to do things that increase their chance of getting injured.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[kwai chang pain]

Thanks for the input. I figured it couldn't be that easy, but I had to ask.
Now I'm the same boat as the person who started the thread. Do I stick with the TKD version I know or learn the MT way? It sounds like the MT way is more practical/street effective.

I've been thinking about buying some Rob Kaman instructional videos just for that purpose. Anyone have an opinion on whether you can really learn the MT roundhouse from those?? Thanks.

[Damian Mavis]

In my opinion the muay thai round kick is a great self defence kick when used against an attackers leg (thigh specifically). The shin cuts through the thigh muscle better than the instep and deals a crippling dead leg (charlie horse) that can keep your attacker from being able to stand at that moment and if he can't stand he can't attack. Plus if you want to do leg turning kicks at any time its just plain safer to use the shin as the attacking tool, the instep is filled with smaller more fragile bones that can be easily injured if you kick someone as hard as you can and hit their bony protusions on their leg instead of soft muscle which happens quite frequently. ( I am an expert on getting injured and this particular injury sucks even if its just a sprain.)

For me if kicking to the torso and especially the head the TKD turning kick is fine. My turning kick in both styles are equally powerful and Im not concerned so much about a street attacker shileding and blocking with his shin in a street fight so Im not worried about which attacking tool to use that will protect me from injury. However if I'm intent on cutting through his tricep or froearm muscle and disabling his arm (because he's blocking or has a boxers guard up) then I will go with the muay thai kick and use my shin to penetrate deeper.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Python]

For my new guys who can't get the pivot and hop twist, I put a piece of paper under their base foot so the pivot is automatic. This helps them feel how it should be and allows them to focus on the arm swing and hip twist/thrust more. Once they ahve done it several times, and the arm and hips are in sync, I take the paper away and make them pivot on their own. IT seems to help alot. You can try that too. Anyone else here do that?

[chalambok]

Damian, all I am repeating is what I was taught by Master Chai. I do not disagree with what you are saying, either. I believe, myself, that the straight leg is easier for completion of the circle, and that students who begin with a bent leg kick too much directly forward, and can easily be cut. If you watch in the camps, when they are shadow-boxing and kick around the leg is straight, and when they kick the pads the leg is bent a little. What we are both doing here is trying to stop the snap kick, so you and I probably look more similar in execution than it may seem just from listening to our posts. And Python, what you are describing is how Ajarn Suwan, Master Chai's instructor, taught him to pivot correctly. It helps if the surface is wood or linoleum, but the paper trick doesn't work as well on canvas or in the dirt. Wearing socks can achieve the same result.