Long-term effectiveness

[obsessed]

Ok, so what I'm getting from this is that it's more practical to do MMA than any kata art form (ninjutsu, kenpo, etc.) because you're sparring and using techniques that will actually show you what street fighting is all about.

But then I must ask a question: what is the point of doing something such as ninjutsu? Ignore the philosophy part of it, and realize that people are doing this for self-defense. Why choose this over something such as MT that would toughen you up and actually let you defend yourself?

I can see why something such as Ninpo would allow you to become great after a number of years, but afterall, what's the point of breaking bones with different techniques if you're strong enough already to just hit the bones and break them anyway?

Do you see what I mean? It's almost like you have to choose either superior strength or superior skill. But in the end, which is more profitable? What if I am sent away on military duty and there is no gym around. Would training years upon years be wasted if I'm gone for a year without any weight-lifting?

I would want to keep my excellence as a fighter, but it seems as though something such as MMA would allow me to lose my touch, whereas something like ninjutsu would stay with me forever, because it doesn't rely on strength.

How is this viewed?

thanks

[obsessed]

And I'm trying to think about long term here. What really gets me is that you can study something like MMA, and then go ahead and study something like boxing. Obviously the MMA is the better choice, simply because it includes more than just boxing, so why spend time just boxing?

Realize that I'm looking at this from a self-defense perspective, and there are probably more relations than the one I have given.

However, my point is that I want to dedicate my time to something worthwhile; something that is beyond other arts. I don't want to spend my time on something that will leave me 2nd to something/someone else. I don't want to spend 20 years on Aikido, when I could get the same level of fighting capability in 5 of boxing. I want to make the most out of my time.

So what do I do? Is MMA the way to go? AFter all, Masaaki Hatsumi of the Bujinkan (ninjutsu) seems pretty good at what he does. Ignoring the fact that this question has been asked 100 times, would a muay thai chamption be able to smash hatsumi into the ground?

Take a look at the idea that one hit would probably end it, but one move from hatsumi would also end it.

Thanks

[Little Apple]

Masaaki Hatsumi is the grandmaster of his art. Yes, he could wipe the floor with a prize fighter. Again, his ART. Part of the draw to things like...Bujinkan isn't it?...is that they are arts, there is a very obvious grace, and yes the author of Pathnotes could probably also wipe the floor with a prize fighter, did you happen to cach how long he'd been at it? Another draw to the softer arts is that they aren't as hard on the body, and you can't say "aside from the philosophy" because it's intrinsic.

Also, if you're gone for a year from anything, boxing, BBJ, Bujinkan, whatever, you're skill is going down the tube. Strength won't stay by itself, but neither will skill because it's a good chunk muscle memory. Heck, I rotate focuses, and after 3 months of mostly (but not even all) boxing, when I focus back in on trapping I can feel the rust already. Trapping is all rhythm and skill, not really muscle.

There are lots of reasons to do martial arts, self defence and competition aren't the only ones, for example there's plain old self-betterment. Like I said, your time and money will dictate how much you can do, and your goal and interest will dictate what kind you do.

You said efficient self-deffence, and we've said MMA. If you said, "flexibility" or "self betterment" or "focus" we would have said something else. You obviously like the idea of the softer arts, your time and money are the only thing stopping you from doing both. Unless they're not, in which case do both.

[obsessed]

My only problem is that there aren't any dojos in my area. I have to do a different art. But I'm sure jujitsu and ninjutsu relate to each other, don't they? I mean if I practice jujitsu for some time ninjutsu will be practically the same?

[Little Apple]

The mentality of Bujinkan is one thing that makes it unique. I've yet to hear of one if it's dojo's being a belt factory. And because of the mentality of it's master and instructors, spirituality is inescapable, especially if you emerse yourself. That's something you probably won't find in Jujitsu. However, yes Jujistu is another soft art, and IMHO if you're going for a soft art, Jujistu is up there in effectiveness.

May I ask what drew you to Hatsumi's art? Coolness factor? "Pathnotes" that book by the American student?

[obsessed]

I've done a lot of research, and I"ve seen a lot of martial art demonstrations in TKD and such. It really stood out. I felt as though it was more aggressive than anything else I've seen (because it's about survival), and seemed very interesting.

I guess I"m just conflicting myself though. When I think of fight I think of mayhem, and it seems as though practicing kata wouldn't help at first. I can see where if you practiced them upon live opponents who were really trying to kill you then after a while thye'd come out helpful.

But as for now I feel as though the numerous bone breaking techniques could be smashed by someone like tyson (just using him for his phenomenal strength, not him as a fighter), who could break bones by not even worrying about locks (hitting alone).

does that make sense?

I very much would like to train in BBT, but there's nothing around my area. Maybe sometime in the future. I just want to pull bits and pieces from all martial arts to form my own system, but BBt seems to be so useful and has it all. I think for my aggression factor I might have to take up MT though for now...

I really can't say what I"m thinking.

I guess I want the most effective art out there (most efficient I should say) that will make me a greater fighter in the long run (I say fighter as in fighting for your life)

[obsessed]

For interest, TKD just doesn't cut it for me, if you know what I mean

[Little Apple]

First off, boxing and MT aren't all muscle, if you don't think you'll be perfecting technique by training in them, you're mistaken. Second, the purpose of Kata is not self-defence, totally different goal. Third, "the most efficient style" is a misconseption. If you become a master of anything you'll wipe the floor with most, and there could be a "best style" for you, but not over all.

Here's a concept for you, try it on: Martial Art is made of body motion, rhythm, opposition, and mind set (among other things); to fight, you need to understand motion, and fit your opposition into the holes of your opponent's rhythm. In this sence, there is only one Art, and any style you use is a path, not the direction. I advise MMA for you because it gives an all encompassing view towards body motion, and if efficiant fighting is your goal, then you want as many tools in your technique vocabulary as possible, so that you'll know where to look for the holes in Mr. Badass's rhythm, you'll know what shape will fit when you see them.

That was a little deap I know, and I'm sure someone's going to laugh at me, but that's really all I can think of to say that will answer your question. Quite frankly though, to me it seems like you already know what you want to do, but a) You're looking for reasons that show what you want is the best, and b) it's not in your area anyway.

May I ask where you live that you're afraid you'll have to fight for your life?

[obsessed]

Thanks Little Apple. YOu've been a huge help.

I totally understand the concept of different paths. What I was getting at which path is shorter (to say it easy)

I'm not downing anything you said for me about MMA either, I'm just constantly asking questions so I know what to shoot for. I think I'm too wrapped up in the decision process and actually going out and doing something rather than contemplate what to do would be the best bet. I just have to wait another couple months though.

I also live in a very good area. I think the fighting for your life thing is just a power issue. I feel as though self defense should be to protect your life, shouldn't it? Wouldn't I want the best method possible?

Also, could you enlighten me on training routines that MMA participate in if you have any knowledge of it. I know I"m asking a lot, and if you don't know just tell me. I'm totally new to this and it's very different for me.

Thanks again

[obsessed]

I was curious because I wanted to know how power was developed. I'm not big at all, but can generate some power. I also want to start prepping for the MMA classes in a few months, and need to know how to train for them.

I'm about 5'10 and 155 pounds. I also have a bag at home (100 pounds). It really seems punching something sure beats weights, and it also seems that the jocks think they can fight because they can lift big weights. My point is that I can generate more punching power than a lot of people I know, but can't lift that much weight.

[Little Apple]

Wow. OK, someone help me out here, I'm a little out of my deapth.
First, training methods will vary depending on where you go, just look for something you like I guess. Second, martial arts isn't easy or you're doing something wrong, so I don't know what to tell you. If you want to be a rock solid ball of glittering skill, it's going to take time and effort. Third, lifting is good for you, I'm not sure why you don't want to do it.

Do you want to be a martial artist or bad-ass? Because I'm the wrong person to ask about being bad-ass, I'm a tiny girl who generally wears pretty colors. I mean, come on, my name on the kickboxing forum is "Little Apple"

Being a martial artist I'd love to talk with you about, being a 200lb engine of slathering death, I'm afraid I can't help you, I only weigh half that and it doesn't bother me.

[m_calingo]

I would want to keep my excellence as a fighter, but it seems as though something such as MMA would allow me to lose my touch, whereas something like ninjutsu would stay with me forever, because it doesn't rely on strength.

Some martial arts require more strength than others. To say that any martial art requires no strength is misleading. I haven't studied ninjitsu, so I won't claim to be a total expert on this topic. I have read about it though, and from what I've read, it was not uncommon, during the Japanese feudal period, to have young boys who were training to be ninjas (taught by family members) to climb up a tree and just hang from a tree branch as long as they could. They would do this to strenthen their foerarms and grip, and to allow them to silently hang from ceilings or trees or whatever, quietly, for long periods of time. Can you imagine how strong these guys got to be by doing this routine for years and years?? I don't know about you, but to me that seems like it definitely requires some strength.

Skill, strength, they go hand in hand. I've studied martial arts for more than a few years, and all of them included some resistance training as part of the system. Any system claiming that physical strength is not necessary is just a bunch of crock, IMO.

[sportmuaythai]

Wow. OK, someone help me out here, I'm a little out of my deapth.
Do you want to be a martial artist or bad-ass? Because I'm the wrong person to ask about being bad-ass, I'm a tiny girl who generally wears pretty colors.
Being a martial artist I'd love to talk with you about, being a 200lb engine of slathering death, I'm afraid I can't help you, I only weigh half that and it doesn't bother me.

Dear Obsessed, you should listen to Little Apple. If you want to be street smart, you'll have to get rid of your bad-ass obsession. Self defense means avoiding troubles. If you train hard enough, you'll most likely be able to avoid problems, no matter what type of martial art it is. If you still get into trouble, you haven't train hard enough. Go back and train some more.

[jubaji]

Masaaki Hatsumi is the grandmaster of his art. Yes, he could wipe the floor with a prize fighter. .

How do you know that?

[jubaji]

My point is that I can generate more punching power than a lot of people I know, but can't lift that much weight.

Yeah, you're most likely just kidding yourself about that because it makes you feel a little bit better about yourself to do so.