I Hate Tkd Schools, all they want is $

[GranFire]

it was coined/directed to me....

His post was:

And to the guy who gave free classes and only charged the overhead..... uhm, what was the final result? THE SCHOOL CLOSED DOWN

I beg your pardon then!

[47MartialMan]

Look I have no problem with it.

Like I said earlier, we all are quick to point out a rebuttal before thoroughly understanding.

[GranFire]

Look I have no problem with it.

Like I said earlier, we all are quick to point out a rebuttal before thoroughly understanding.

LOL! You are talking to a slow person....I don't get insults sometimes for years!

[Damian Mavis]

No man I understood you perfectly. But what I was trying to point out was that in my opinion the end result would have been different if you HAD been making money instead of volunteering your time. What motivation did you and your partner have to continue teaching for free indefinately REGARDLESS of whatever life changes you guys had or didn't have. All instructors I know have day jobs, wife kids everything, but they continue to make money at their martial arts school and never see a reason to stop.

I think you are a nice person so don't think my tone is harsh, it isnt. And forgive me in another thread were I mention something you said is ridiculous. I think instructors that never take the commercial step will never understand those of us that live as professional instructors and feed our families this way.

I used to be dirt cheap, and drive my students around to tournaments and testings for free and teach on holidays for free and all kinds of stuff... 10 years ago. I learned the hard way that nobody appreciates what you do for them ESPECIALLY if it's free. People appreciate what they pay alot of money for . I dont like it, but that is human nature and its just the way it is. As a result I have a large expensive school and charge more money than I would have ever thought possible 10 years ago. And in Thailand no less heh. Actually if I didnt charge a high rate.... most people here would think it's because I'm not very good and would go to another school that charged more.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[GranFire]

I used to be dirt cheap, and drive my students around to tournaments and testings for free and teach on holidays for free and all kinds of stuff... 10 years ago. I learned the hard way that nobody appreciates what you do for them ESPECIALLY if it's free. People appreciate what they pay alot of money for . I dont like it, but that is human nature and its just the way it is. As a result I have a large expensive school and charge more money than I would have ever thought possible 10 years ago. And in Thailand no less heh. Actually if I didnt charge a high rate.... most people here would think it's because I'm not very good and would go to another school that charged more.

Said pretty much everything that is to say! The *You get what you pay for* must be applyed to everthing at all times

[cowpaste]

Damian Mavis,

Does your school have a website or something? What exactly do you charge?

[47MartialMan]

No man I understood you perfectly. But what I was trying to point out was that in my opinion the end result would have been different if you HAD been making money instead of volunteering your time. What motivation did you and your partner have to continue teaching for free indefinately REGARDLESS of whatever life changes you guys had or didn't have.

Your point is not valid in my view. I still think that you DONT UNDERSTAND. Because making money WOULD NOT have kept them opened. Money was not the motivation. As I had stated, we started as a group looking for a common place to train ourselves. Our training WAS the motivation. We figured, hey we have this place, lets spread our motivation for martial arts. There are other motivations in life besides monetary. People in Thailand may not understand this.

All instructors I know have day jobs, wife kids everything, but they continue to make money at their martial arts school and never see a reason to stop.

Goes to show if they made a good living at it, they would not have a "day job". Besides, this is the choice that they made. Ours were a collective choice based upon our "individual desires".We had desired something else besides teaching. When you start something with someone, and they or you, or all parties, decide that the people who was with you and all separate, it isnt the same. One partner left becuse he had advanced in the company he worked for-but he had to change residence that was great distance. The other, was in college, but changed his major to "Med". After discussion, it would have been difficult to continue such a venture. As for myself, I didnt have the time, let alone, desire to continue. Seeing the birth of my daughter, my wife was in her last year of college, if the school was making money, would have not mattered. If making money was a issue, we could have sold the schools. There comes a time when one just desires to stop something for various reasons. Again-money isnt everything.

I think you are a nice person so don't think my tone is harsh, it isnt. And forgive me in another thread were I mention something you said is ridiculous. I think instructors that never take the commercial step will never understand those of us that live as professional instructors and feed our families this way.

I am not taking your post harshly. I think you do not understand my situation. You are making it in reference to your own. We were not taking a commercial step. The first school lasted a long time, the second was half as old. They were growing. We had a surplus of funds which we re-invested into the schools. Again, it is your choice to feed your family that way. I have nothing against it. I choose to provide for my family in a diffferent manner. Teaching could have nevered come close to the finances and desire that I have now. I enjoy my career.

I used to be dirt cheap, and drive my students around to tournaments and testings for free and teach on holidays for free and all kinds of stuff... 10 years ago. I learned the hard way that nobody appreciates what you do for them ESPECIALLY if it's free. People appreciate what they pay alot of money for . I dont like it, but that is human nature and its just the way it is. As a result I have a large expensive school and charge more money than I would have ever thought possible 10 years ago. And in Thailand no less heh. Actually if I didnt charge a high rate.... most people here would think it's because I'm not very good and would go to another school that charged more.Damian Mavis Honour TKD Thailand

See, this is what I have been saying. You are relating your experiences with a school towards mine. As far as paying more....this is not the case. A more, twice expensive pick up truck is not going to perform twice as better as a lower priced one. Some Japanese automobiles out-perform and last better than some expensive European and American ones. Paying out more money does not always equate better quality.

Last-my rewards where to see people WHO COULD not afford such high rates enjoy martial arts. Why class people in such a way that they are deprived because of their financial status? People did appreciate us. Last-each our schools had more students than others. So much for higher pay-more students, lower pay, less students.

I know Asians, Indians, Europeans believe that things are only worth by the price tag affixed. The "you get what you pay for" doesnt always apply in ALL cases. (ex-Autos)

[Little Apple]

I agree, we give free classes and people love it. They work hard, they come for 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, and they don't have to take months off due to lack of funds. It's pretty common for people to say our 6 month students look like they've been training a year. It brings the focus to the art, not the business. Of course, we can only do that because we can use the university without overhead, and I know that's not an option for most.

But I definately disagree that you'll only be appreciated if you charge a lot. Here's my oppinion: if you charge a lot, you have money for nice facilities, and people appreciate that. Like Khru Rick Faye's gym in Minneapolis, he's got a huge space, all the equipment you need, and weight machines. Even if it weren't someone like Khru Rick Faye, people would pay a higher rate to use that space. Also, it's not like you'd think the facility was somehow less useful if he did his best to keep his rates low.

[Python]

A problem with this that I have run into is that in the bigger city there are alot of MMA guys and MMA fights all the time...some of the gyms DO NOT charge for training, partly because they are just fighters themselves so they all just train together, no actual instructor. Then they come to me to get better stand up training and don't want to pay the fees. They get spoiled by the FREE lessons and then when they want quality they want it free too. NO WAY!! I give "extra" sessions free sometimes to some of my select fighters, partly because it gives me some sparring and training time too, and because they may have a fight coming up, but that is the only time it is free.

OR....they complain about the prices, yet at the same time they belong to a health club on an annual payment, but never go...etc,etc...That is the part that bugs me.

[GranFire]

It is awesome if you can have a setup like Little Apple, with a nice group of dedicated people (I guess the college environment does not hurt: a bunch of chash strapped, but goal oriented folks )

Unfortunately there are way more of the wannabe rich people where I live, that basicly bragg with the fact that they are about one paycheck from bankrupcy, because of all the bills thay have to cover: Big house, new car (biggest) Healthclub, shopping etc....if it's free, it can't be good...

(And even the less privileged, you offer them a free program, and they find a reason not to take advantage of Wicked world!)

[Damian Mavis]

47MartialMan, I disagree but ok.

The only thing I will continue debating is: "As far as paying more....this is not the case. A more, twice expensive pick up truck is not going to perform twice as better as a lower priced one." I know that, but the rest of the world doesn't, especially Asia. And if I don't live by their culture I will not have a successful school and the instructor that isn't as good as me but twice as expensive down the road will get all the students. I used to teach really cheap and be available to everyone, after 10 years I have gone in a different direction, I think almost 10 years is enough. You have no idea what I mean by didnt appreciate.... if you teach long enough you experience a lot of negative things that turn you off of being ice to everyone and trying to help them for free. Time after time geting burned and hurt by people you tried to help will discourage you and wake you up to the reality of life.

Cowpaste, I'm ashamed but my website hasnt been updated since April when I opened my new big studio... its in my profile. I charge 2800 baht a month which is equal to about $95 Canadian a month.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[Little Apple]

Hmmm, I do see what you mean Python. I'd like to think we do a good job of letting them know that the 100 a month Khru Rick Faye charges for full access is cheap I don't know if they do, I don't stalk them after they leave, heh.

Now and then some of them grump about paying for their equipment or a seminar, but my bro usually does a good job heading that off with, "Now this would normally be costing between 50 and 100 a month with training every day, and a weight room down the hall, so use the money that would go to that, and buy some thai pads."

As to the fussy I-am-oh-so-entitled guys...I kind of have no simpathy. That's not a attitude I can easily respect in the martial comunity. I feel like they might not understand the whole Respect and Disapline thing.

[Rickster]

The only thing I will continue debating is: "As far as paying more....this is not the case. A more, twice expensive pick up truck is not going to perform twice as better as a lower priced one." I know that, but the rest of the world doesn't, especially Asia. And if I don't live by their culture I will not have a successful school and the instructor that isn't as good as me but twice as expensive down the road will get all the students.

See-again this is where my expriences had differ and why you cant understand or relate to mine. I did state; " I know Asians, Indians, Europeans believe that things are only worth by the price tag affixed. The "you get what you pay for" doesnt always apply in ALL cases. (ex-Autos)" I know all too well it is about the culture/environment for which one resides and does business. My culture/environment of owning a school was not monetary driven to remain open or its demise. I could go on about a lower price beating higher price, but again this would reflect my culture/environment of business.

I used to teach really cheap and be available to everyone, after 10 years I have gone in a different direction, I think almost 10 years is enough. You have no idea what I mean by didnt appreciate.... if you teach long enough you experience a lot of negative things that turn you off of being ice to everyone and trying to help them for free. Time after time geting burned and hurt by people you tried to help will discourage you and wake you up to the reality of life.

In reciprocal, of "-again this is where my (your) expriences had differ and why you (I) cant understand or relate to mine (yours)." Evidence of you thinking I cant relate you yours is of your statement; "You (I) have no idea. This maybe true, but because you are posting that I have no idea, experience, understanding, you have no idea that I did not need monetary compensation. Low overhead like that of a University (Little Apple), has it to where direct monetary value is not apparent.

I am not debating on how or why you have to be monetarily compensated. I am not belittling anyone who does. But, I am not going to tell someone reasons of why they should have done, or not done, something based upon a whole different concept and experience.

[Rickster]

It is awesome if you can have a setup like Little Apple, with a nice group of dedicated people (I guess the college environment does not hurt: a bunch of chash strapped, but goal oriented folks )

Our overhead was set up nearly the same way.

Unfortunately there are way more of the wannabe rich people where I live, that basicly bragg with the fact that they are about one paycheck from bankrupcy, because of all the bills thay have to cover: Big house, new car (biggest) Healthclub, shopping etc....if it's free, it can't be good...

Yeah, people who are used to paying high for things become too attached to possesions. Like anti-Buddhists

(And even the less privileged, you offer them a free program, and they find a reason not to take advantage of Wicked world!)

I think that alls of this has to depend on culture/environment. My schools were not free-but affordable.