Everyone is wearing Thai trunks.

[3mptin3ss]

Can American MT beat Thai Mt? Does Thai MT suquare off combatants according to size and weight?

there was a documentary here about usa mt kickboxers competing in barenuckle matches in thailand vs thai kickboxers. both the main usa kickboxers knocked out their opponents.

dutch kickboxers are also known to be quite good.

[sportmuaythai]

Outside of Thailand, "commercial gimmicks" (as you put it) are a necessary part of martial arts. Without those gimmicks to dangle in front of their noses, why the hell would they put themselves through the rough and tumble training that MuayThai offers? They could take up ballroom dancing instead!

I beg to differ from your opinion, Khunkao. I think that you're in contempt of your students. With proper encouragement and interesting as well as productive training, I think students will look foreward more to training than to seek recognition from coloured shorts. Nevertheless, I have nothing against colored status symbols for kids 12 years old or younger.

[sportmuaythai]

there was a documentary here about usa mt kickboxers competing in barenuckle matches in thailand vs thai kickboxers. both the main usa kickboxers knocked out their opponents.

dutch kickboxers are also known to be quite good.

Lol. Yes US fighters can beat the heck out of Thai MT fighters. I've also seen those fights broadcasted live on TV. But you should be aware that they were mismatched fights. The Americans were fighting no name fighters, at great weight advantage.

[47MartialMan]

there was a documentary here about usa mt kickboxers competing in barenuckle matches in thailand vs thai kickboxers. both the main usa kickboxers knocked out their opponents.

dutch kickboxers are also known to be quite good.

BUT YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY SECOND QUESTION-

Does Thai MT square off combatants according to size and weight?

[Python]

I beg to differ from your opinion, Khunkao. I think that you're in contempt of your students. With proper encouragement and interesting as well as productive training, I think students will look foreward more to training than to seek recognition from coloured shorts. Nevertheless, I have nothing against colored status symbols for kids 12 years old or younger.

You seem to be a very closed minded person. I did not say I tested the students to colored shorts. I said their first test was to earn shorts, the color is irrevelant. From that point their test are just to the next level. I do not have a whole rank structure, like some schools. You have missed my point and you have missed Khun Kao's as well.

Also, I dont believe there is MT and "American" MT. there is Muay Thai period, taught all over the world. We dont change the Muay Thai in its essence to be "American".

My students do not need a test to stay interested. The training is plenty to keep them coming back, in fact they love it. I place the shorts test as the first level because i want them to respect the shorts and what they stand for a bit more than just buying them and saying, "Hey I do Muay Thai". Anyone can do that.

I gotta say though, this is not getting heated and is an interesting discussion. I am intrigued by the varying opinions on the topic.

[WildWest.]

I've done MT for 10 years. For the first 3 years I wore normal shorts to training.....then I bought some Thai shorts. You don't need rankings and all that other bollocks for an art that is simple. If you love it then you will train.

[sportmuaythai]

You seem to be a very closed minded person. I did not say I tested the students to colored shorts. I said their first test was to earn shorts, the color is irrevelant. From that point their test are just to the next level. I do not have a whole rank structure, like some schools. You have missed my point and you have missed Khun Kao's as well.

Very well said, because if it were in Thailand, I'll bet these students would blush from snickers and jeers. BTW do you charge for testing? Also, are these coloured shorts more expensive than normal? It's my personal view that the trainer is not capable of making his training interesting and productive enough, so he has to resort to commercial gimmicks as incentive to retain his students .

Dear Python, I wasn't exactly making issue of the colours. I was just questioning if the testing cost extra money, ie to wear boxing shorts you must pass test, and to test, you have to pay the extra testing fee. I don't see why I'm closed minded about that.

I gotta say though, this is not getting heated and is an interesting discussion. I am intrigued by the varying opinions on the topic.

I totally agree. I'm puzzled that Americans put more emphasis on accessories ( shorts and arm bands etc.) than Thais do.

[Khun Kao]

I beg to differ from your opinion, Khunkao. I think that you're in contempt of your students. With proper encouragement and interesting as well as productive training, I think students will look foreward more to training than to seek recognition from coloured shorts. Nevertheless, I have nothing against colored status symbols for kids 12 years old or younger.

I am NOT in contempt of my students. You are reading too much into my feelings of this practice of making students earn their shorts. I do not follow this practice. I do not have a grading system. My students come to work out and spar.

All I have been saying from the beginning is that I *understand* this practice and that I do not believe there is anything wrong with it. I never said I adhered to it.

[Khun Kao]

I totally agree. I'm puzzled that Americans put more emphasis on accessories ( shorts and arm bands etc.) than Thais do.

Its because these symbols are not commonplace within our own culture. I was the same way when I started MuayThai. I was overly excited about the shorts, the prachiat, the mongkon, even the colored ankle supports. Bear in mind that I trained as a fighter from the get-go. I started fighting within 6 months of training.

These items symbolized that I was doing something special. No other martial art uses these accessories (except other Thai arts). They are a way to show that you aren't just doing "karate" and "cardio-kickboxing" like MOST of the masses do.

All of this probably is alien to someone from Thailand. The shorts have no real significant meaning behind them. The other accessories do, but they don't have the same significance that those outside of the Thai culture assign to them.

[Khun Kao]

Dear Python, I wasn't exactly making issue of the colours. I was just questioning if the testing cost extra money, ie to wear boxing shorts you must pass test, and to test, you have to pay the extra testing fee. I don't see why I'm closed minded about that.

You have to understand that its hard to discern the true intent of your comments on an internet message board. Your words can easily be read as though you are mocking us in your comments about colored shorts and testing fees.

Please also understand that many of these practices that you are questioning originated with ex-Thai boxers. The testing for shorts custom is particular to Ajarn Chai Sirisute, and testing fees are used by more Thai instructors than you can shake a stick at.

[Python]

You have to understand that its hard to discern the true intent of your comments on an internet message board. Your words can easily be read as though you are mocking us in your comments about colored shorts and testing fees.

Please also understand that many of these practices that you are questioning originated with ex-Thai boxers. The testing for shorts custom is particular to Ajarn Chai Sirisute, and testing fees are used by more Thai instructors than you can shake a stick at.

I agree with this. Ajarn Chai does charge for Khun Khru testings. He does not require specific systems of rankings, that is left up to the individual Khrus', and not all of them do things the same.

Look at Master Toddy in Vegas, doesn't he use colored sashes (like in Kung Fu) to show levels? I have heard of some using colored belts like in Karate or TKD for ranking. While I do not agree with all of the various methods instructors are using, I don't see anything wrong with it either, provided the essence of Muay Thai is still intact within the training.

If one of you who disagree with us were to actually begin your training within a school who utilizes a grading system, you would feel differently, because you would actually enjoy the TRAINING.

[47MartialMan]

Everyone is wearing Thai trunks.

Sounds like a parody to a song-

Instead of "Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting"

"Everybody was Thai-Trunk Wearing"

next verse?

[sportmuaythai]

I am NOT in contempt of my students. You are reading too much into my feelings of this practice of making students earn their shorts. I do not follow this practice. I do not have a grading system. My students come to work out and spar.

All I have been saying from the beginning is that I *understand* this practice and that I do not believe there is anything wrong with it. I never said I adhered to it.

This is in reply to all posts related to my posts. I must have stirred up bee hive here, for which I do not apologize. I feel that I've made this thread interesting by offering provocative opinions. However, I apologize to KhunKao for thinking that he promotes ranking (grading?) and the fees that go with it. I think that some of my comments were also interpreted in the wrong way. I'm not making excuse here.
Dear Python, Master Toddy doesn't have high regards among Muaythai circle in Thailand. We look at him as commercialized MT promoter, similar to Don King. While he does retain some good MT instructors, Thais in the US don't think that he himself is in the same league.

[bigred389]

I agree with this. Ajarn Chai does charge for Khun Khru testings. He does not require specific systems of rankings, that is left up to the individual Khrus', and not all of them do things the same.

Look at Master Toddy in Vegas, doesn't he use colored sashes (like in Kung Fu) to show levels? I have heard of some using colored belts like in Karate or TKD for ranking. While I do not agree with all of the various methods instructors are using, I don't see anything wrong with it either, provided the essence of Muay Thai is still intact within the training.

If one of you who disagree with us were to actually begin your training within a school who utilizes a grading system, you would feel differently, because you would actually enjoy the TRAINING.

Eh...I trained at a place where they had a grading system. I was not very enthused about the concept.

I mean the gym was great...just they didn't make a huge deal out of it, and I simply have become pretty jaded to such systems.

Like the saying goes, Thai boxers only care about one kind of "belt."

[47MartialMan]

Well- if there is a good quality workout, who cares if they get different colored shorts, shirts, or underwear?