Muay Boran, ancient muay thai art still effective?

[fire cobra]

It seems to me (by his last post) that Sieh is prepared to admit he could be wrong about Sunthus,and that he is not what he seems.

Its easy to be fooled,it can happen to us all,to accept this and be willing to move forward and grow is the main thing so perhaps we can all learn in one way or another from this thread(I know I have).

[george stando]

Well, look I didnt want to revisit these threads because its more ridiculous nonsense. We live in 2009 and not in the stone ages. Does anyone know anything about RESEARCH and fact checking. The thai martial arts have become commerce and things have changed, its not what it once was especially in the old style sector, as evidenced by the volume of nonsense that pours in here.

I stand by my posts to sieh and on sunthus. I dont know black crown nor do i need him or anyone else to back me up. He presents his own info and if it does coincide with what i have been saying then you can accept it as is. The information from the thai person definitely is accurate and even deeper than my own research and i going to double check it with my american teacher who is probably the best researcher on this topic. But this is only the tip of the iceberg because its going to worse trust me if they continue pushing this crackhead truth of german pahuyuth. I have nothing but disdain for cowards and liars and this is a paramount example of this.

I already explained accurately, sunthus spent very little time in thailand in his youth before relocating enough time to train though and gain a level of skill and he trained in some martial arts wiht some genuine teachers. He is not a grandmaster or an inheritor or gate keeper to any of those arts because he was not a full master of them. He is well educated, he collected a huge library, translated the books and created a new history from them without citing the source(plagarism in my book). He recreated the thai martial arts from his own training and from the books. He wrote volumes of stuff that impressed gulliable people as I stated over and over and over again. I said look at the texts and say where did this come from and why is he not citing it. He created himself a godhead of a made up, fabricated system based on his own research.

Now is this bad? No. Many people have done this. he created a system of knowledge that he taught for many years in Germany with great success and obviously there is some truths in there and some decent training though minimal to me or any experienced teacher or practitioner. But dont go saying you will not reveal your teachers, that WE dont understand pahuyuth, and when called to the carpet by great grandmasters in thailand who read your writing, watch your cds and clips and say its totally made up, that you snub your nose at them and say they are liars when YOU are the liar. You see the arrogance even in sieh's posts saying can you answer this question that he thinks he is the master of. Utter nonsense.

Theres alot of people operating out there like this. He is just one. When a thai master went to germany to teach, sunthus said the thai master didnt know ling lom or pahuyuth when the thai master has trained his whole life in these arts and knows the truth.

First off, if you are gulliable like sieh, you fall into a cult like suspended animation and these are cults because look how brainwashed these guys are, each believes he has the holy grail!. This board seems to attract this nonsense from the killers, the one hit wonders of praeng who attack then run, the pahuyuth, its endless. Not one looks above or beyond, to see the truth, its a one way road to all of them. They are quick to say you are wrong but present nothing to back up their statements. If sieh is honest then he needs to get off this board and do his homework. My teacher told me doesnt work all that well in 2009. Because he might be selling you a bag of goods that might not be what you think it is.

So for those who are alive, aware, true to themselves, they can come here and check into anything and if you dig you will find the truth.

This is not about hurting anyone's reputation or destroying them, its just about telling the truth, period.

If you fabricate and try to create myth then you will eventually be caught and outed as a fraud then you will have to accept that mantle.

I contribute to this forum to help the westerners not get tangled up into all these juvenile battles with masters fighting, stupid claims...you guys dont need that. If you are like me, you want to train with good people and learn what we can and maybe propogate that and just be good at what we do. I recognize that in the people i converse with on this forum and I share what i can with you guys in the most honest manner I can. I also learn what i can and i do learn from people on here and when i am wrong I will admit it and correct myself.

I do enjoy the forum and the people or I wouldnt bother. I dont really like these protracted battles with sieh or whoever but sometimes it is necessary. This whole thing--pages of nonsense was unnecessary--if sieh took a moment to intelligently look, research and try to learn instead of pouring on the ego this would have been an excellent thread for dissecting and finding the truth with or without the thai intervention.

I dont really want to get involved with this anymore. I threw up the red flag to you guys. Go back and read what I wrote. I wouldnt change a word of it.

I would just let this die out and go away. Its not worth the struggle. Let the lost remain lost. You guys got the truth. If they want to be smart, they will let go and do research and study, but most people dont have that courage, sieh included.

[Sieh Tanonchai]

It seems to me (by his last post) that Sieh is prepared to admit he could be wrong about Sunthus,and that he is not what he seems.

Its easy to be fooled,it can happen to us all,to accept this and be willing to move forward and grow is the main thing so perhaps we can all learn in one way or another from this thread(I know I have).

thanks, fire cobra. This is the attitude I like fighters to have.

Sieh

[Sieh Tanonchai]

I already started to do some homework ...

Sieh

BTW thank you for using educated words and manners in your last post

[george stando]

This from leung tings wing chun book Wing Tsun Kuen copyright 1978, page 23: photo of sunthus and leung ting: below sunthus bio:

Sunthus Supasturpong
President, European Center of Thai Martial Arts
Berlin Germany
(RED-GOLD SASH) The only master i think who gave out red then gold sashs was the late ajarn samai from buddhaisawan, and that was his own creation.
Master of five different Thai Martial Arts(already dealt with in another Thread)
Former Champion of Thailand(wow, this just about tumbles his credibility into hell--Champion of what? dates, belts, opponents?????

[black crown]

thanks for your post.


black crown,
my google translator just translates the upper part of the sites and even this very poor translated. Is there any other chance to read/get this linked information?
I would love to read it.

thanks
Sieh

Try Thai to English dictionary, translation & transliteration - Thai2English but i've never used it before.

or U need to cut and paste activities.

[fire cobra]

Well, look I didnt want to revisit these threads because its more ridiculous nonsense. We live in 2009 and not in the stone ages. Does anyone know anything about RESEARCH and fact checking. The thai martial arts have become commerce and things have changed, its not what it once was especially in the old style sector, as evidenced by the volume of nonsense that pours in here.

I stand by my posts to sieh and on sunthus. I dont know black crown nor do i need him or anyone else to back me up. He presents his own info and if it does coincide with what i have been saying then you can accept it as is. The information from the thai person definitely is accurate and even deeper than my own research and i going to double check it with my american teacher who is probably the best researcher on this topic. But this is only the tip of the iceberg because its going to worse trust me if they continue pushing this crackhead truth of german pahuyuth. I have nothing but disdain for cowards and liars and this is a paramount example of this.

I already explained accurately, sunthus spent very little time in thailand in his youth before relocating enough time to train though and gain a level of skill and he trained in some martial arts wiht some genuine teachers. He is not a grandmaster or an inheritor or gate keeper to any of those arts because he was not a full master of them. He is well educated, he collected a huge library, translated the books and created a new history from them without citing the source(plagarism in my book). He recreated the thai martial arts from his own training and from the books. He wrote volumes of stuff that impressed gulliable people as I stated over and over and over again. I said look at the texts and say where did this come from and why is he not citing it. He created himself a godhead of a made up, fabricated system based on his own research.

Now is this bad? No. Many people have done this. he created a system of knowledge that he taught for many years in Germany with great success and obviously there is some truths in there and some decent training though minimal to me or any experienced teacher or practitioner. But dont go saying you will not reveal your teachers, that WE dont understand pahuyuth, and when called to the carpet by great grandmasters in thailand who read your writing, watch your cds and clips and say its totally made up, that you snub your nose at them and say they are liars when YOU are the liar. You see the arrogance even in sieh's posts saying can you answer this question that he thinks he is the master of. Utter nonsense.

Theres alot of people operating out there like this. He is just one. When a thai master went to germany to teach, sunthus said the thai master didnt know ling lom or pahuyuth when the thai master has trained his whole life in these arts and knows the truth.

First off, if you are gulliable like sieh, you fall into a cult like suspended animation and these are cults because look how brainwashed these guys are, each believes he has the holy grail!. This board seems to attract this nonsense from the killers, the one hit wonders of praeng who attack then run, the pahuyuth, its endless. Not one looks above or beyond, to see the truth, its a one way road to all of them. They are quick to say you are wrong but present nothing to back up their statements. If sieh is honest then he needs to get off this board and do his homework. My teacher told me doesnt work all that well in 2009. Because he might be selling you a bag of goods that might not be what you think it is.

So for those who are alive, aware, true to themselves, they can come here and check into anything and if you dig you will find the truth.

This is not about hurting anyone's reputation or destroying them, its just about telling the truth, period.

If you fabricate and try to create myth then you will eventually be caught and outed as a fraud then you will have to accept that mantle.

I contribute to this forum to help the westerners not get tangled up into all these juvenile battles with masters fighting, stupid claims...you guys dont need that. If you are like me, you want to train with good people and learn what we can and maybe propogate that and just be good at what we do. I recognize that in the people i converse with on this forum and I share what i can with you guys in the most honest manner I can. I also learn what i can and i do learn from people on here and when i am wrong I will admit it and correct myself.

I do enjoy the forum and the people or I wouldnt bother. I dont really like these protracted battles with sieh or whoever but sometimes it is necessary. This whole thing--pages of nonsense was unnecessary--if sieh took a moment to intelligently look, research and try to learn instead of pouring on the ego this would have been an excellent thread for dissecting and finding the truth with or without the thai intervention.

I dont really want to get involved with this anymore. I threw up the red flag to you guys. Go back and read what I wrote. I wouldnt change a word of it.

I would just let this die out and go away. Its not worth the struggle. Let the lost remain lost. You guys got the truth. If they want to be smart, they will let go and do research and study, but most people dont have that courage, sieh included.

Thanks for the info George,as usual from you very Interesting and educational(and straight to the heart of the matter).

Its obvious you feel really strongly about all you have wrote on this matter.

Respect brother.