Thai Kick defense

[Khun Kao]

Real fights are so dynamic that a foot being in one area or another changes the counter or defense you are likely to use.

This is why I love watching true masters of the art fight, like Samart, Kaensak, Sumruk, Buakaw, and Yodsonklai..... The way they fight, they *NEVER* seem out of position! So much of what they do seems almost choreographed...

More specifically, they seem to be masters of RANGE! Often when we fight, or watch others fights, we notice the missed opportunities. Maybe we simply missed the opportunity, or perhaps we threw the inappropriate strike and miss.

The true masters of the art never seem to make those same mistakes. They always seem to strike with the appropriate weapon for the given circumstance....

[Ghost]

This is why I love watching true masters of the art fight, like Samart, Kaensak, Sumruk, Buakaw, and Yodsonklai..... The way they fight, they *NEVER* seem out of position! So much of what they do seems almost choreographed...

More specifically, they seem to be masters of RANGE! Often when we fight, or watch others fights, we notice the missed opportunities. Maybe we simply missed the opportunity, or perhaps we threw the inappropriate strike and miss.

The true masters of the art never seem to make those same mistakes. They always seem to strike with the appropriate weapon for the given circumstance....

yeah i agree completely, its having that feel for whatever the position is, to just know whats right at that given time, and that takes a lot of experience.

[george stando]

Whats different in thailand in the training is that you are not spoon fed combinations or anything, you are learning from one to two to three, stringing things together slowly. You are building the blocks with time. Slowly and surely.

I was doing kicks on the pads with my trainer here in bangkok yesterday and I was doing good but now he simply leans out every once and awhile and evades me cleanly and wants me to adjust immediately. His timing is impeccible and now he is teaching me to adjust to that, he keeps introducing things and increasing skill.

This is one of the keys to muay thai here--- in the west its lost to mechanical combinations and over written approaches. This is just my own experience and from my own training.

[fire cobra]

My experience in Thailand is that things are set,there are certain counters the coaches want you to do and in every camp ive been to they are the same,eg against a body round kick use a shin block,evade back or catch,each of these leads to set counters which in turn lead to set defences and yet more counters etc,this is the reason that all the fights look the same.

On another note the corners are so important in Thailand,they set the tactics and usually win the fight for the boxer,knowing when to go forward or hold back.

Oh i love Muay Thai.

[george stando]

Things can be set and maybe some camps do it that way but not in a rigid by the numbers ways the westerners teach it and from my experience its not rigid but fluid. I have trained for a long time and the knowledge still keeps coming plus the little tricks that each fighter or trainer has, it seems never ending but in a small way not a large all encompassing way. Plus each time I fight I gain something. The last time I fought in thailand, my opponent invited me to his camp to train, I thought it was a cool gesture and my trainer said it would be good to go. I went there and they did things in a very different way than my camp in how they work and teach but they treated me great and I made alot of friends. So I guess the more you train, the more you learn and the more you expand which is the point of evolving and learning.

[fire cobra]

Things can be set and maybe some camps do it that way but not in a rigid by the numbers ways the westerners teach it and from my experience its not rigid but fluid. I have trained for a long time and the knowledge still keeps coming plus the little tricks that each fighter or trainer has, it seems never ending but in a small way not a large all encompassing way. Plus each time I fight I gain something. The last time I fought in thailand, my opponent invited me to his camp to train, I thought it was a cool gesture and my trainer said it would be good to go. I went there and they did things in a very different way than my camp in how they work and teach but they treated me great and I made alot of friends. So I guess the more you train, the more you learn and the more you expand which is the point of evolving and learning.

I agree George,definatly not set in a rigid way,what i meant was they use the same movements which makes it a competitive sport,they all block,catch lean etc.

I have had the same experience in that each trainer has his own ways but ultimatly they are teaching the same things for the same game,and then there is Saenchai!.

[george stando]

I tend to look at the small things which accumulate into big things, so I dont see everything as the same from camp to camp and approach to approach from the actual fights, champs and trainers. I learn more each time and I evolve into my own fight strategies and combos. Today i learned a strange clinching drill how to evade an incoming knee so slightly then immediatley counter attack, it was hard to do and it will take time to develop but it also seemed designed to teach a certain reflex and action. Every day its something new and its endless.

[Khun Kao]

So what was the drill? Don't hold out on us, man!

[fire cobra]

I tend to look at the small things which accumulate into big things, so I dont see everything as the same from camp to camp and approach to approach from the actual fights, champs and trainers. I learn more each time and I evolve into my own fight strategies and combos. Today i learned a strange clinching drill how to evade an incoming knee so slightly then immediatley counter attack, it was hard to do and it will take time to develop but it also seemed designed to teach a certain reflex and action. Every day its something new and its endless.

Thats my point George,that drill to evade the knee and counter will be known and trained by most boxers/trainers,there are no new or secret techniques in the Muay Thai ring.

[george stando]

Nothing is secret but knowledge of how things are taught, progressed and made functional to me is because everywhere i look and see schools, websites, books, dvds, its the same thing over and over again. So there might be people who profess to know it all and know everything but they seem to be vacant or absent when it comes to teaching it, explaining it, showing it and or writing or making dvds about it ESPECIALLY in the west. There must be some intangible that is missing from the tranmission of knowledge that is leaving out all this stuff because linkage and progression is how you teach, how you become better, how you learn the art and then taking it into the ring is another step and another even greater step is being able to teach it and transmit it without having to resort to endless drills of little to no merit to the art itself when there are all the necessary explanations, drills and progressions built in if one bothers to spend the time learning, training it and fighting it. So everything might be known but when it seems to come out its mostly cosmetic and hollow.

[fire cobra]

Nothing is secret but knowledge of how things are taught, progressed and made functional to me is because everywhere i look and see schools, websites, books, dvds, its the same thing over and over again. So there might be people who profess to know it all and know everything but they seem to be vacant or absent when it comes to teaching it, explaining it, showing it and or writing or making dvds about it ESPECIALLY in the west. There must be some intangible that is missing from the tranmission of knowledge that is leaving out all this stuff because linkage and progression is how you teach, how you become better, how you learn the art and then taking it into the ring is another step and another even greater step is being able to teach it and transmit it without having to resort to endless drills of little to no merit to the art itself when there are all the necessary explanations, drills and progressions built in if one bothers to spend the time learning, training it and fighting it. So everything might be known but when it seems to come out its mostly cosmetic and hollow.

I agree with you George,as you say in the west for sure,we have to remember that most westerners dont speak The Thai language and cant spend months or years studying in Thailand so it comes bit by bit if it comes at all(understanding of the progressions and how to teach/coach those ways).

The Thai people have it allready,its theirs so its easy for them and that is my point,they all have it!.

Enjoy Thailand George.

[Tee Sok]

This is a rather interesting discussion, arguments are very well put and clear.
Learning a fighting art and an art in general really is a journey through the
art itself and through your own self, and the posts above showed clear examples.
Thanks a lot for sharing.

[Tee Sok]

Things can be set and maybe some camps do it that way but not in a rigid by the numbers ways the westerners teach it and from my experience its not rigid but fluid. I have trained for a long time and the knowledge still keeps coming plus the little tricks that each fighter or trainer has, it seems never ending but in a small way not a large all encompassing way. Plus each time I fight I gain something. The last time I fought in thailand, my opponent invited me to his camp to train, I thought it was a cool gesture and my trainer said it would be good to go. I went there and they did things in a very different way than my camp in how they work and teach but they treated me great and I made alot of friends. So I guess the more you train, the more you learn and the more you expand which is the point of evolving and learning.

This is just great. I mean in Thailand I have never heard of an opponent (before or after a fight) or of a student of another teacher who invites you to train at his camp/school without wanting to promote or sell anything to the public, just out of respect, kindness and to share techs and strategies. It should be an example for all the martial tribes and clans (Thai and others)that keep fighting among themselves and that care more about selling or claiming this and that.

[fire cobra]

This is a rather interesting discussion, arguments are very well put and clear.
Learning a fighting art and an art in general really is a journey through the
art itself and through your own self, and the posts above showed clear examples.
Thanks a lot for sharing.

I agree Tee Sok,

And for my part i respect the viewpoints of all the people who have posted on this thread,its obvious they know what they are talking about.

[fire cobra]

This is just great. I mean in Thailand I have never heard of an opponent (before or after a fight) or of a student of another teacher who invites you to train at his camp/school without wanting to promote or sell anything to the public, just out of respect, kindness and to share techs and strategies. It should be an example for all the martial tribes and clans (Thai and others)that keep fighting among themselves and that care more about selling or claiming this and that.

Yes it is great!,my teacher used to say(when i promoted) that i should put the opponents in the same room as each other overnight,they should breakfast together etc,get to know each other a bit,mutual respect can be gained which which could make for a great fight.

Two qualities which i feel are missing from the fight game in the west in general are Respect and Honour,the very two things that are shown in Thailand rings all the time.