Good Value For Money

[-FIGJAM-]

Hey Guys,

I have been doing Siam kick boxing for about 4months now, and my gym is offering a 8 day course which is meant to get me close to the equivalent of a black belt kick boxer and at the end i walk away with my level one or two instructor qualification.

The training is twice a week for for weeks, 8 hours a day. The cost for the course is $2,500AUS, or $1,630USD.

Am i getting ripped off here? I want to start competing as soon as possible, so the training really interest me, but i dont want to be ripped off at the same time.

Anyway, can people let me know that they think.

Cheers,

[thaiboxer67]

seems like a very short time to get a "black belt" even by taekwon do standars
caveat emptor

[-FIGJAM-]

that's what i thought...

They said it shaves at least a years training off, but the maths doesn't quite add up. I was wondering if anyone else had similar experience here and would be able to enlighten me.

Because its 8hours straight instead of a couple hours a week, is this better and speed the process up or?

[Tim Mousel]

You can learn a lot and improve on some things but not become an instructor in that amount of time.

[Garland]

...that doesn't seem like enough time to gain an appreciable understanding of the mechanics involved in muay thai...as for "black belts"...I know that there are some different arbitrary methods that different individuals or organizations use to rank students (in our society it's sort of a necessity, people want proof of something for their money and effort that they can use as a symbol of their acheivement)...but the only real belts in thaiboxing are the ones that have a bit of luster to them and are made of something just a tad bit heavier than fabric, and are much harder to attain.

To gain a working knowledge of the fundamentals of muay thai would be, depending on the individual and their ability to pick up the material...in my very amatuer opinion...between 6 to 9 months.

On top of that, if it is something you intend on teaching...I'd personally want to have at least a slight understanding of the culture behind the art, and a working knowledge of other facets that tie into it... viz- treating common training injuries, ringsmanship, coaching, fitness, nutrition, TEACHING, and so on.

Also, it helps to have experience... having a dozen or so fights will allow you to relate to fighters you may train down the road, and give some credibility to what you teach...you don't want to simply be a "paper tiger".

...as an aside, and I don't mean to stray too far off topic, in the olden days in the Philippines, according to what I've heard from stories and what I've read, old arnistadors and escrimadors wouldn't give out instructorships, students at a certain point would simply proliferate their knowledge to others and break off...usually with their instructor's blessings but no real tangible permit or paper diploma, and those that did give them out were essentially signing their students death warrant, as it would give others license to challenge them.

I've also heard the words that "angelo dundee isn't supposed to beat mike tyson"...but I digress.

My point is... if you want to promote yourself as an instructor, it's your call...but for the sake of the art, please do your best to understand it in its totality. This group giving out the instructorships believes that this is all the time needed to train to be an "instructor", but ultimately, you'll know when you're ready (years down the line) if you're being honest with yourself. Don't believe the hype of some black belt factory.

In my opinion, the TBA has a great method of testing and priming their instructors...check it out. Years of work, and grueling tests, but it will actually mean something more to you, in your heart...knowing that you put in the work and acheived something greater.

Think the difference between medical school at an ivy league college and vocational training at ITT tech...

[Tim Mousel]

Great post Garland!

[-FIGJAM-]

Hey Thanks for the info.

I wont be able to simply go out and start my own gym, here in Australia you need to be registered, hold certificates etc etc. Personally i agree, if it was me looking for a trainer i would want someone with years of experience and knowledge. I should have clarified that myself. The course i believe is working towards having the "written qualification" to instruct and to help around the gym with other fighters.

I didnt think kick boxers had black belts etc myself. This is just what they have tried to sell me.

I dont mind paying the fee if its beneficial and if it is pretty standard for what i am learning.

To try and give you some perspective of my own training, i am about 4months into training, 3 times a week for a hour or two (depends if grappling is involved), i love the sport and in my fair judgment, i am a sproty person so to say (not a gumby) i pick things up.

I guess my question is or should have been, is 64hours worth of training worth $2500 and a certificate 1 trainer?

[fire cobra]

Why not use that money to go to Thailand,there are places such as the Muay Thai Institute that offer good courses if you want to learn to teach,or go to a good camp for a month and train 6 hours a day for around 50 us dollars a week.

[Guest]

If you are looking at this course to just accelerate your ability in the arts, it may or may not work depending on how you learn as a person. Some people respond very well to accelerated learning and their ability can spike in a short space of time. For many people though it just doesn’t offer the digestion time, or flight time, for them to really own what they are being taught.

Is your motivation the certificate at the end? I’m guessing the people putting on the course are hoping it is, hence the fee. The ability to teach an art competently, especially when questioned or challenged, requires a depth of understanding and experience that I don’t think can be rushed.

Is it value for money? Well it works out at just short of $40 an hour. Would you walk into a school and pay $40 an hour for a class? That’s very steep. My assessment is, they are charging you for the piece of paper.

I guess for me it comes down to this - are you in a specific rush? If not, then just be wary. Martial arts marketing in the 21st century has become very good at convincing people that they should be in a rush. Understand that there is only one reason for that – cash flow. I think the only person in a rush in this scenario is the bank manager.

If I were you, I would follow Fire Cobra’s advice. If I came to you to study with you and you told me that you had learned your craft in Thailand over a period of years or even months, training with fighters and coaches, then that would impress me. What’s more, you can do it for a few hundred dollars. However if you told me you’d gone down a school and done a 64 hour course for a few grand, alarm bells would start ringing. My guess is you could come back from a few trips to Thailand and teach that course yourself, probably to a higher standard.

[fire cobra]

Good post Michael.