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i thought maybe someone on here could point me in the direction to find muay thai chaiya dvds. either kru preang or kru lek doesn't matter. i am really interested and you all seem pretty knowledgable for the most part. so any advice would be great. thank you.
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Try some of the thai stores on line. i have the one kru lek one which is pretty bad and saw alot of the kru praeng stuff which is equally bad. I mean bad in terms of quality of execution of techs and general functional use. But thats my own opinion. It all seems robotic and kung fu like. The kru lek one I think is a vcd. I am sure the chaiya flagship boys will come on expounding on the greatness shortly and offer more direct options to get the vcds. But if you are looking for fighting specifically bare knuckle useful stuff save your money and time, theres nothing out right now like that or evidently the people who know how to teach it. -
thanks george. no not looking for the most effective fighting form in the world or some ancient miracle style just curious. i am a very capable fighter been training since thre years old. started with my parents, dad muay thai, mom wing chun. and the ball never stopped rolling. i have instructor certs in a good number of martial arts only i choose not to teach right now, still working on me ya know. but thank you very much for your post george hopefully these guys will come out the wood work for me. and to the chaiya folks out there don't think i am down putting your art cuz im not. i just want to learn it, as i am a bit of a history buff so to speak, and would really appreciate your help. thanks much.
tenzenComment
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Cool, tenzen. hit me with a PM privately here and I can hook you up with someone who has great info historically and stuff.
Heres a new one:
eThaiCD.com, Online Thai Music-Movies Store :: Documentary : Muay Thai Chaiya Wanarat
Dont know how good. The kru lek one should be around but I cant find it. I didnt like the praeng or lek material as presented but you might get something from it.Comment
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Hi George and Tenzen.
The Wanarat is from kru Mat whom I met. I saw a Chaiya demonstration from him and his students which looked ok to my unexperienced eyes. As I am a beginner in Chaiya you have to take my thoughts lightly. Kru Mat and his students were nice and kind, I just talked to them and exchanged some thoughts. I know kru Mat also teaches Silat as he is muslim, but as far Chaiya and Silat I cannot tell how deep his knowledge is.
There are some clips of il on youtube :
YouTube - CD muay thai chaiya wanarat 1/9
and so on.Comment
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yesterday i received a few chaiya dvds from some associates of mine so i figured i would say a little something. the lek dvd was not that bad. i have seen far worse and far better so it is just ok. a good portion of it is the warm up and then it covers techniques.
the wanarat is the newest chaiya dvd and it is equal to the lek dvd only it is in thai with no sub titles. lek dvd has subtitles. it covers how to wrap the hands the old way, but the instruction is not all that clear.
i also received the wai kru but i have not watched it yet. i will post on that one later.
good luck with the training.Comment
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I'm going to put in my two cents and hope that it doesn't set off some sort of digital tripwire.
Speaking as a student of Kru Preang, I can tell you that I have the "Mai" dvd featuring Kru Preang's brand of Muay Chaiya. I can also tell you that it is by no means an instructional dvd and is, at best, a brief introduction to the history and methodology of Muay Chaiya. A surface-level coverage of instructors, tactics, and training methods are shown on the disc in tandem with some of the flashier Luk Mai techniques of the style.
Shifting gears a touch, I can also tell you that the dvd my be an overview of the style, but actually training with him and his staff is definitely a unique experience. A student and admirer of martial arts for some years now, I can tell you I'm looking at it from the standpoint of one who just likes this stuff. Combative effectiveness and historical significance are just facets of the greater diamond to me, and while they're all important in their own right, they're fragments of a greater whole. Training at Baan Kru Preang, I feel, really immersed me in the customs and traditions of this art as well as its combative efficacy. When I came home, just horsing around with friends in other arts using the Chaiya blocks left them hurt and me kind of laughing at the matter. Again, I didn't get into it for fighting, but it is what it is, and what it is is something to be respected.
I was fortunate enough to train with Kru Preang directly when the opportunity arose, and in doing so, it was easy for me to see the depth of understanding he had in what it was that he was doing. I say all this not to champion him above any other Chaiya instructors nor to indirectly disparage their ability, but I do feel that Kru Preang has not been fairly represented on this forum. Truth be told, I really don't like these things/places, but it must be said: If you want to try Muay Chaiya, you can watch dvds and youtube clips all you like and gain a faint sense of what's really there. If you want to really do it, you're gonna have to go try. I bought this dvd primarily just to check it out (really isn't that much), but it pales in comparison to my time spent actually being there. Watching Kru Preang's students fight in MMA bouts in Thailand or in Baan Kru Preang training with the man himself, the dvd is kind of like a teaser compared to the aforementioned. A piece of me knows there are those out there who bought the dvd and are ripping techniques for it to call their own. Shame on `em, but I got it more as a souvenir than anything else. Vicarious individuals like that often lack the discipline to pursue an art vigorously anyway, so for them, the dvd is a gold mine of flash and fancy techniques. Kru Preang can do these at the drop of a hat, but even he has told me that with solid basics, you'll be just fine and have more than enough. I have yet to meet a good teacher who didn't think this, and after watching his students (as well as playing around with my friends), I know it to be true.
I'm guess what I'm saying is, after all that blather, is that you've got to see for yourself and hope your eyes are skilled enough to not only find what you're looking for, but see and understand all that you didn't know existed.
In training and beyond, good luck.Comment
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You are not setting off a digital tripwire but your opinions are your own. Since you only have "2" posts you obviously joined on here with an agenda as the others from kru praengs school have in the past.
Your piece is not a review, a balanced piece of writing as one would do as tenzen did having not trained with any one or coming on with an agenda, you came on to endorse your teacher and your training. Its a paid endorsement as we have seen from killer and deoz in the past, a manipulation of the forum for your own purposes. Fine so be it.
I dont see any combat efficiency, do you understand what combat is and what it entails certainly praeng doesnt and it doesnt show in his teachings, presentations, displays or dvds.You might be discussing function or trying to be functional but the material is left in the past---- being functional is using your art in this time and this space, chaiya was made for bare knuckle fighting and bare knuckle fighting still exists and happens in burma and in thailand yearly but we dont see any of praengs people openly displaying their skills and their superiority in a place where it should be demonstrated and shown. Thus combat and functional are not there as far as self defense it is vacant for modern times. Again you dont understand as the other students of praeng dont understand what you are talking about in the realms of self defense, function and combatics and should refrain from having any discussions or even endorsing something you dont understand.
Kru praeng has NOT been misrepresented on this forum. he was misrepresented by his own students who were trying to create a false prophet out of him and writing nonsense of biblical proportions on here. Dont blame a critical lashing or feedback against him when its you guys causing all the problems.
Then you go on to say you are superior to anyone here by saying " you hope someones eyes are skilled enough to see his superiority"? Shame on you for making false assumptions and again ego worship based upon your inability to see and blaming others.
People do give praeng respect but its him and his students who dont respect others and here in thailand it is a known and given fact....So temper your comments, its like being in a cult, you are myopic and open sided. Open your eyes to the other side.
Fine you like praeng like his dvd,think he is superior so go do your thing. I for one is not impressed and i take people to task as i have in the past for not coming on this forum and contributing something at all before posting your advertisements. Go do that on our own forum or contribute something positive before insulting people.
Also we have had people posting clips of fights between lek and praengs students and other nonsense which is foolish childish nonsense and not becoming of anyone of skill and understanding.
Vicarious individuals like yourself you who lack insight, training acumen and suddenly show up in thailand and think they possess gold or some secret are seriously misguided and lost and make statements like people who lack discipline to pursue an art seriously, please stop while you are ahead here. Some people on here have done muay thai and fought for years and thats beyond discipline and sacrifice. You dont understand what discipline and focus is so its just a word you throw around without understanding what you are saying.
Look fine you like praeng you like the dvd, you like all that.You are entitled to your opinion but also take into account the actions and statements of praeng and his students on this forum, the actual lack of fighting skills and i do mean disciplined real fighting skills displayed in real time which praeng has no experience in having, dislaying or developing--not been a fighter and not having trained any fighters to any high level(this is a fact-research it well before responding) any person with real fighting experience is going to see the flaws in his arsenal and presentation, you cant so be it. Looking at him in person, seeing his dvds, tv performances, demos, students fighting...there is nothing there that would lead me to want to train with the man but that is me personally and in my opinion.
In closing, your remark "Truth be told, I really don't like these things/places", keep insulting people and forums, then come on to do your lame, baseless endorsements. Truth be told, we are tired of people with no skills and talent coming on here running their mouth. If you dont like these things and places, then why bother?
This is a damn good forum and I met alot of people on here with alot of skill and knowledge and learned alot myself. Respect and something to be respected as you alluded to comes from presenting yourself to others in a respectful way and respecting others skills and opinions, praeng doesnt and his students dont display this inside thailand or outside and its shame on them which follows them everywhere they go like the stench of a rotting corpse.Comment
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Dude, relax.
When I said misrepresented it was in context to the fact that Kru Preang and his students aren't fluent in English. They told me that wanted a foreigner's view on the matter. From the comments I'd read here, it looked kind of one-sided. In my mind, that came off as misrepresented. Perhaps it's more along the lines of not effectively represented moreso than "mis-", but I just gave my opinion. For that matter, I've heard a good amount of trash talk thrown to Kru Preang as well from other schools and their students. I suppose from there it becomes "well KP started it", right? I don't know, I don't really care. It's the political aspect of martial arts that I don't like engaging in (I'd rather practice). Again, I saw different schools and went the one I thought could meet my needs.
Doesn't everyone who comes here and speaks their mind have an agenda? In this case, it was to respond to (I believe it was Tenzen?) Tenzen's question on Chaiya dvds. Wouldn't that make his agenda "the acquisition of Muay Chaiya dvds?". Regardless, I did so, and also gave my experience, capping it off with the bit about being able to see something you might not have anticipated. There was no trace of Kru Preang's "supremacy" over anyone else nor my own. I went in thinking one thing and got more than I expected. That's what that means. Where you got the superiority thing is beyond me even as I read my own words. It wasn't intended as an insult and in reading my words again, I still don't see it. Unless you want it to be that way, I don't think it's there. All the talk of my disrespect and ego worship I have a hard time finding because like any other teacher, Kru Preang's a man. You kick him in the groin and he's gonna double over in pain. What he knows is appealing to me and might be to many others. Conversely, it might disgust and amuse some others, but that's just how it all rolls. Not everyone likes grits, some would slap their grandmother for it.
As far as discipline and sacrifice goes, my hat's off to anyone who's willing to give time and energy. In this day and age, the two are commodities not a lot of people have. However, done on a repetitive basis with a clear intention, the two can be construed as discipline. In reading what you're saying, it sounds like you've taken what I said as a put down to anyone who doesn't go with Kru Preang. It's not. Who does or doesn't go isn't my concern, I was responding to Tenzen because I thought that maybe what I had to say might help him out. Sure, I'm here because Killer wanted me to help promote the art he loves, but the bigger issue is that I responded to Tenzen and here you are minutes later. You're speaking of how what some do is far beyond discipline and sacrifice, my question is "What is that then?" To an extent it's like you're saying unless you bleed for it it doesn't count, and for all the people here who've gotten in the ring, I'm sure there are many who haven't. In that sense, you are insulting those who have simply chosen not to, which is their right. I said I avoid these places because I prefer to field my questions to people whose skill I'm aware of. Just so there are no miscommunications on that one, that means I'd rather ask someone of skill that I know personally, and that's only because I have people like that around me. Some don't so they come here and that's just as valid as any other way. It's all preferntial and relative. I came here (round three) out of request from a fellow student. I didn't know I'd be halted at the gate by the diplomat of the forum for speaking my mind. However, I've said what I had to say even before your response so that'll do it for me. I just wanted to try and clarify anything I said for anyone that might have read my words in a way that wasn't how I wanted them to mean.
Thanks for sharing your opinions with me, Mr. Stando.Comment
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No, dude, you relax.
My post in response to your thread is clear, crystal clear. You were sent here with an agenda from killer, deoz or whoever those cowards are who hide behind fake names. You state the obvious. Thank you for at least being honest. You didnt come here to positively contribute to the forum and add anything that previously wasnt said. I am not the gatekeeper but someone who happens to like this forum and what is has to offer along with exchanging and learning from some very skilled and knowledgeable people. I also know the situation living and training in thailand so i offer my viewpoints as i see fit.
I dont care for politics either but praeng has always had politics and agenda in his eyesight since i can remember especially here in thailand. He has constantly sent people into this forum to just sprout endless conjecture about how great he is constantly without contributing anything more to the forum or to anyone here then race off only to return for another round. That to me is politics and agenda, the very thing you said you are not doing but contributing heavily to. You have not been on this forum for more than minute so understand that there is a deep past issue here.
You were taking people to task in a supposed superior position as you are stating in your posts if you re read them stating that the material is combative and functional which it is not in the hands of praeng as i was stating. I am disagreeing with you on several points. You are making assumptions throughout your posts as i pointed out re read them because obviously you missed something.
I can offer my opinion and I did taking you up very clearly and openly on your points and words. I didnt misrepresent, fabricate or twist any of your words --i simply answered them in kind and you didnt like it. People can extract from it as they wish and you can endlessly argue your points.
I have not insulted anyone other than questioning if you like killer, deoz and the others understanding what you are saying from experience meaning being able to use an art in the ring, in the street, in battle etc which you are implying in your "review, opinion, agenda" or whatever you call it. Sorry to say experience counts not only in the ring but in life.
Kru praeng is one student of many students of muay chaiya teachers as stated previously, he is not the best or the greatest, his teacher or teachers left no designated successors, he is not the only one who holds the truth or keys to that system. his work to me is mechanical, exact and lifeless, the breath of combat is missing, so yes his work can demonstrate the art in a way like a kung fu man can brilliantly demonstrate form. I give him that and in that regards the dvd or his performances are good and on that merit a person could acquire it but nothing more will ever be gained or extracted from that. I dont believe he has ever displayed any ability to teaching fighting in real time or any real self defense or combatic application or ring application of that system or i would have been the first person at his door to train. If i wanted to train muay chaiya in an old static ancient way without any resolution it was created for then praeng would be an ample choice. My opinion.
The forum is open and in an open forum you will get responses. Thats the way it works. Seems like you dont want to be part of a forum that is open and can be argumentative and even combative at times sometimes it bursts the bubble people put around their teachers and styles. One thing you will see is respect and when respect is not given then a volley of hard responses will be felt.Comment
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well thanks tuck but i have moved away from the whole chaiya thing. you see my original agenda has nothing to do with this forum, this is just a place i came to to find someone who could point me in the right direction. i want to fight in the border fights the bareknuckle stuff, this is my agenda. i thought chaiya would be a good place to start so i came here to find someone with any information or that could point me to where i could find it. george you were instrumental in helping me with this by directing me to another party who is very knowledgeable on these subjects. thank you. but after a bit of research and testing some of the chaiya stuff in my own way, i have decided that my khmer boxing will be sufficient for this. i came from a martial art that has more politics than the white houseand i am not trying to go down that road again. too much politics in chaiya for me. i was able to acquire a few chaiya dvds not the kru preang one though, but these answered the questions i had so i am not looking for chaiya dvds anymore. i do want to thank you for posting your opinion on the subject, but as george said it seemed a bit one sided. this may not have been your intention but this sort of thing happens as i am familiar with things you say being not exactly what was meant. it happens. no big deal. but i feel the same as george in that you came here to promote kru preang. if you were asked to come here by killer and provide assistanceto his struggle to make preang and his students look like tools then you should start another thread. not saying they are but this is how they are made to look by themselves. it is best to stick to practice like you stated you like to do and not mention chaiya on the threads, instead remain art less and just participate in the discussions.
you said you would rather get your advice from those you know their skill level is up to par, well i can assure you that if you sit back and watch these boards you will know who knows what and who is full of shit. and i can tell you these guys know their shit george is no exception.Comment
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Changing tack a bit Tenzen,the boxers who take part in the border fights dont use any different technique to what they have done when they fight with gloves,all the boxers who take part from Thailand are camp Muay Thai trained boxers with lots of fights under their belts.Originally posted by tenzen View PostComment
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yes i am aware of this now. i thought the bareknuckle guys still fought bareknuckle fights. i was wrong about this and i now know this. i do not practice muay thai but kun khmer(pradal serey) and i will use this to fight in the border fights if i make it one day. if not oh well i still am having fun learning and fighting, it doesn't have to be the border fights thats just what i would prefer. in the beginning i thought the old styles were still being used for this but i have learned the truth through someone i have met on here and who that person directed me to. i realize now that it is the same as the ring just no gloves, before i thought they really were worlds apart. dont get me wrong i think chaiya is beautiful and all but i am after something more plus the politics has pushed me away from it. thanks again to you all though.Comment
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Fire cobra is dead on, its muay thai fighters taking on the bare knuckle burmese bare knuckle not any of the muay chaiya guys. I think only one bare knuckle thai guy fought and he wasnt from either lek or praengs camp but from another one, so that says something. Your khmer training should put you in fine form to fight up there just bone up a bit on the burmese style which has a mad rush and then tend to fight faster, the thai guys usually dont get pulled into their game, cut the rush and bring it to the clinch and control then knee the shit out of them.Comment
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i have been studying footage of the border fights to help me out. they have been paying off in my ps classes. i tend to come in very fast and hard like these guys anyway. only i do not throw uncontrolled or wild punches. nor do i lead with my face. but those guys are really hard and i am going to have to train very hard to get to where they are.
v told me about how it was the ring fighters who are fighting the bareknuckle events and not the bareknuckle guys. that was what helped me come to the conclusion that i need to stay where i am and not worry about the bareknuckle styles. i do fairly well in the clinch, have alot of background in things that help out in the clinch alot, bjj and japanese jujutsu wrestling and wing chun are what i have done that i feel helps me out here. particularly the wc in that it stresses close elbows and quick reactions through sensitivity. my kru was very impressed the first time we clinched. im also fairly strong and can handle people well due to me being short i think. only because i am short knees to the head are not always my favorite option i would rather clich and throw elbows, but that is just my preference. for knees i am best at jumping knees as i can really jump. in close though knees to the body is pretty much all i got, well i like knees to the legs too. with no roots even the strongest tree will fallComment
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