About knowledge Muai Muay Pahuyuth 'old style'

[Sieh Tanonchai]

What has Pahuyuth to do with the king of Thailand? Is there a link?

Yes, there is! Your are right. Good job,
next one, a little more tricky.

Why a Pahuyuth teacher can teach Thai history and art in a totally different way as discussed here (watch my educated words!) and the king of Thailand does not finish it?
A word of him and it would be finished, wouldn't it, he is the king.

To the well-knowing ones,
why could that be? How it could be?

Sieh T.

[Sieh Tanonchai]

Maybe the king appreciates(!?), would this be a reasonable possibility...

Why is there a strong connection between the pahuyuth-fighters and the king of Thailand, where does it come from? What are the logical consequences?

[black crown]

Nothing related, no connection at all......Just only Sunthus's lies.

From recorded histories, Ancient king had to study Muay, Weapons, Horses , Elephants, Arts of War, Rules and Regurations and others. No evident states that Pahuyuth has any relation with the king....Just only Sunthus's words and his webpage.

In Thai webboard Sunthus always claimed that he has many things close to the king...But He has nothing. Just his lies. He went to Germany when he was 20 yrs old with nothing.. How could he connect to the king, if he didn't have opportunity to serve in any royal family or even in the army?

He claimed in his webboard and his book that Pahuyuth was use in the royal military and studied by many many kings...

For Real, Kings had many many warlords and knights. They came from different part of ancient Thailand. They had many different technics in Muay and weapon.. That's it. Nothing about Pahuyuth.

Just like an ancient king rode horse but the merchant who sell African horse claimed the king rode African horse to promote how good his horses were. All most the same but not. It's just propaganda.


Pahuyuth is what you fight with ur hands. Nothing specific until Sunthus tried to promote himself in Berlin. He had no title, no champion record just some basic of MT and Thai weapons.... so ... How could he turn to be well known...Yes, sth different....The word "Pahuyuth".

I've read Sunthus's first book 20-30 yrs ago. Nothing in that book wrote anything about Pahuyuth. Until oneday Sunthus had read a book written by "Panya Kraitus", the first liar about Pahuyuth. Panya adopted this word from the column written by Grand master of MT "Kate Sriyapai". Panya lied in his book that he had a great opportunite to study from grand master Kate. But true story is Panya went to talk with Kate 1-2 times only. Just talking and when Kate died he came to Kate's funeral and took a picture. After that Panya wrote MT book with the word Pahuyuth inside and claimed that Kate had taught him secret technics which Kate never taught anybody before. With his pic at Kate's funeral and words stated that Kate gave him secret technics in the same page......Nothing in that book related to Kate's style. Nothing just MT sport style as you see in Ratchdamnern or Lumpini by now.

First and big lies about Pahuyuth came from Panya.... After Sunthus had read Panya's lies he belived and wrote down new story about himself. Story of everything mixed and twisted. Of course, Pahuyuth then came to Sunthus's story.

FYI,

Kate Sriiyapai was born in family that served royal military for century and close to royal family. His dad, his grandpa and his grand grandpa were the Lords of Chaiya. The city where the name "Muay Chaiya" came. He had learn many MT styles from 13 masters especially Chaiya style. When he got old he wrote a column called "Pa-ri-tat Muay Thai" or "Criticize Muay Thai". The word Pahuyuth has been used and annouced to public at the first time in his column....Kate use Pahuyuth in the meaning of fight with arms or arms fight. Pahu = arms , Yuth = Fight.
At that time he was announced to be Muaythai GURU and named Grand Master of MT....

Everyone wanted his reputation to cover theirself...... So did Panya... Panya knew so little about MT Chaiya and Kate. But he stole the word Pahuyuth then wrote down in his book and also lies that Kate gave him secret techinics and promoted him to be his successor.. .

How could a man with no ones around Kate knew anything about, was promoted to be successor? Why a man who had never trained with Kate could be his successor and received secret technics in 1-2 times met? Why no one in Kate's camp knew this man until the book was printed. Why when he went to TV show to promote his book many of Kate's students went to the show and tried to beat him on air. The all and only was he lied.....

Back to Sunthus, after Panya published his book in English and spread to International market. Sunthus had read that book and put the word Pahuyuth to be his. He estrablished training camp named Pahuyuth in Berlin and started to wrote down his imagination, mixed and twisted many stories to his Pahuyuth story.


In ancient Thailand, there were 2 MT guard divisions beside the king, called "Tanai luak Sai" and " Tanai luak Kwa" or "choosen left" and "choosen right" these guards had been choosen by the king. They surrounded and guarded the king with barehands. Ancient law did not allow anyone with weapon stay close to the king. Nothing from them recorded about Pahuyuth.


Sunthus is nothing just a man with mixed and twisted.

P.S. Please read this. Tai Chi - Den Haag - taichi thailand

Sunthus gave his words 30 yrs ago with no referrence to Pahuyuth at all. Just Krabi Krabong and Ling Lom.

"Ling Lom" is not "Ling Lam" and is not "Ning Nan".

Ling means monkey, Lom means wind. Ling Lom = air monkey or flying monkey..... Ling Lom is one of black magic monkey tatto pictures. ( Sunthus wrote in his CD and website that Pahuyuth is so called LingLom cos trainee has this tatto on their skin. But 30 yrs ago he said he didn't know why it was called Ling Lom or even mentioned about Pahuyuth.)

In that web Sunthus also claimed he had his golden championship belt presented by the King...big lies again.... Rajdumnurn and Lumpini have all records of their champions. There is no poor Sunthus in those lists....
.
.


Many twisted stories tell something..
.
.
.
.

[fire cobra]

Nice one Brother,thanks for the infomation.

I think we all know the Leung Ting story and what has happened to him in recent years.

[george stando]

This from leung tings wing chun book Wing Tsun Kuen copyright 1978, page 23: photo of sunthus and leung ting: below sunthus bio:

Sunthus Supasturpong
President, European Center of Thai Martial Arts
Berlin Germany
(RED-GOLD SASH) The only master i think who gave out red then gold sashs was the late ajarn samai from buddhaisawan, and that was his own creation.
Master of five different Thai Martial Arts(already dealt with in another Thread)
Former Champion of Thailand(wow, this just about tumbles his credibility into hell--Champion of what? dates, belts, opponents?????

[Sieh Tanonchai]

This from leung tings wing chun book Wing Tsun Kuen copyright 1978, page 23: photo of sunthus and leung ting: below sunthus bio:

Sunthus Supasturpong
President, European Center of Thai Martial Arts
Berlin Germany
(RED-GOLD SASH) The only master i think who gave out red then gold sashs was the late ajarn samai from buddhaisawan, and that was his own creation.
Master of five different Thai Martial Arts(already dealt with in another Thread)
Former Champion of Thailand(wow, this just about tumbles his credibility into hell--Champion of what? dates, belts, opponents?????

Here is what I would like to contribute:

I heard about the belt and I thought it is true since the king of Thailand is supposed to award the belt, isn't it? Now I am confused to be honest '''

Sunthus does not claim he was a champion. As I asked him he said he had never been a champion. He had some fights but it takes a long time to become a champion as everybody in here knows. Maybe this is a misunderstanding of the author?

[george stando]

Its right there in writing from his bio

Champion of thailand

Black crown states here:

""""In that web Sunthus also claimed he had his golden championship belt presented by the King...big lies again.... Rajdumnurn and Lumpini have all records of their champions. There is no poor Sunthus in those lists...."""

Even if i humor you for a minute or more like a second, if the king gives him a merit belt, it doesnt make him a master of five martial arts, or a champion of thailand...Get it! It doesnt change the lies and deceit. The belt is not red and gold, he is talking about rank, it is right before the master of five martial arts...he is implying he is a high ranking master of five martial arts and a champion of thailand. I can read and I know what he is implying all of which is lie.

Get off this forum and go do your homework. You are going back to defending something you know nothing about. When is it going to end with you?

This has been in print since 1978 and nobody corrected it? Come on. Please.

You are stating in the other thread you are going to do your homework and you are insisting on continuing a conversation without doing a thread of work? You are a consistent liar thats one thing for sure.

[Sieh Tanonchai]

You are right, we do not want to start all over again and I am doing homework, for sure.

But I think his spoken word is to be more trusted as a 30years-old book what has not been written correctly. If he would think as the book says, why does he not claim to be an ex-champion?
Please take this one as it is, he is not an ex-champion, he personally confirmed it to me.

from a homework doing
Sieh

[george stando]

Sunthus spoken word means nothing because he is outed as a liar just as you are a liar. The difference is you continue the debate as a cult member and you absolutely refuse to take even a slight moment to try and digest the truth.

If it was disputed, he would have said over the last 30 years on his website that there was a misprint or problem with being called a former CHAMPION OF THAILAND or even a MASTER of five martial arts. But he let it ride and created myth. he never corrected what he himself wrote. He says former champion same thing as ex champion, cant you read or what? He is implying the same thing. If he had a gold belt from the king of thailand then he would proudly display it along with I suppose a letter that would come with it, acknowledging him and whatever was given to him. I am sure being the propagandist and egotist he obviously is, he would have put up that evidence on his website, cds, dvds and at his school............But that evidence seems lacking.

Understand? Who wrote that bio. Him. He is responsible for that myth and its a lie.

Please refrain from posting anymore unless you have something credible to say or post. Again you are turning this into endless dribble to try to prove a point when you have no knowledge of anything that can change the direction of the truth.

Try coming back on this thread in like six months once you deprogram yourself from the cult, learn how to do research, do the research, figure it all out then report your findings with hopefully some intelligence which is sorely lacking from you.

[black crown]

******(RED-GOLD SASH) The only master i think who gave out red then gold sashs was the late ajarn samai from buddhaisawan, and that was his own creation.*******

Present instructor of Buddhaisawan wrote sth on Pantip board about connection between Sunthus and Buddhaisawan....

Sunthus wrote and criticized Bhuddhaiswan many times. As he was studying with Aj Samai. But Present instructor gave details of it. He said several decades ago Sunthus came to meet AJ Samai at Bhuddhaisawan and Aj Samai gave him a chance to performed sword dance to evaluate his knowledge. After that Sunthus requested to do sparring with AJ Samai's student. Sunthus lost to AJ Samai's student who later became one of instructors of Bhuddhaisawan.

After this instructor wrote that Sunthus had never been student of Bhuddhaisawan. Sunthus AKA "Plai Tamil" or "Applied Tamil" then turned to caviled and jibbed this instructor and Bhuddhaisawan on that board.

Sunthus always does sth like this. When somone asked or talked to him in the way he thought this one believed in him, he then replied politely and praised a lot. But If someone disagreed or caught his lies he then turn to basted and slagged him off.

Then Sunthus wrote he had been training by old Bhuddhaisawan not AJ's Samai camp.....so ....What is the truth? One day he said he was, the next he said he wasn't.

BTW, when someone caught his lies from his previous writing or anything on his materials. He always said "Those are what i've heard or what my master told me", or "If u think i'm lying give me some evidences"...bla bla bla..

Once they brought evidences and records then Sunthus replied "I'll have a look at it." or "it's ur evidence but not mine."......

Then he changed to new topic and wrote sth useless to fraud the web again.

For example, we did some talk about ancient fighting on horse saddle. Sunthus then came out and said no one can fight on horse with or without saddle. He said they used horse for war but not fighting because no one could control horse to fight one by one. He had tried but he couldn't do it, then he had conclusion that no one could do it. Fighting in his meaning is one by one or duel. Not the same meaning as war which you doesn't fight just ride the horse over privates. But in his old writing he had written many things about fighting on horse saddle, horse sword, ancient arts of fighting on horse....So... What do u think when sth like this happened all the times?

One day, we talk about ancient tradition MT or Muay Boran as u know. we critized about MT sport and MT Boran on topic of body weapons which were unauthorized to use by MT sport, like headbud, bite, finger tips, back of nuckles and others. He then came out again and said in his MT it's only allowed to use punch, knuckles, knees, elbows and feet only. no one use finger tips or arms or back of knuckles in fight.....It's so ridiculous.......

We use "NAWA ATTA WUTH" or " 9 parts of self weapon which 1 head, 2 fists, 2 elbows, 2 knees, and 2 feet"...... that's roughly translation but it does not limited use of arms, fingers, bottom, legs and others....

We know which parts of body that easily hurt when attack and we also know which part of body which solid hard and better absorb an attack and may hurt the attacker at the same time of ur defend but Sunthus don't...

He always say I've tested it, i couldn't do it, no one can do it.

Sunthus didn't know it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

There are more stories about this guy on Pantip.

[george stando]

Thanks for the clarification, black crown, that was as i was told. It just keeps adding up to more and more damning evidence. Its apparent beyond a shadow of a doubt to me and all i spoke to in thailand and in america, that this is probably one of the biggest cases of a person really fabricating a whole story and myth and never being held accountable for it. Suddenly, the truth rises and its another day. Its frightening that no one would question this. I mean even to me and i am not that knowledgeable it never added up and it never made sense.

if a person is true, like all the thais i met, they always were proud of their teachers, their lineage and often talked about their teachers and how they came to learn. it seemed that was part of being a master there.

When someone arrogantly says he doesnt want to reveal or talk about his teachers and lineage, alludes to being promoted by the king, alludes to being a former champion, alludes to being a master of five arts, never reveals the pages he translated and used as his own writing--the bullshit bell starts ringing and continues to ring.


Its just a solid lesson here to be learned especially for me.

[black crown]

******if a person is true, like all the thais i met, they always were proud of their teachers, their lineage and often talked about their teachers and how they came to learn. it seemed that was part of being a master there.

When someone arrogantly says he doesnt want to reveal or talk about his teachers and lineage, *******

George,

Sunthus said it was a curse from his grand grand master if he reveal the name of his teachers.

We asked for these from him in pantip more than 5 yrs. He always said he didn't want his teacher's reputation to back him up and if he reveal he will get cursed....

BUT.... He wrote down those name in his CD, his book and his webpage....

Why? It's easy. If i said to Thai i have studied nuclear physics in the U.S. My advisors are John Dough and Mr. Sanders.... I talked to that one who have no idea about John and Sanders. He may agree and think Oh u r cool. But as u are there, u know who are John Dough and Mr. Sanders...

Now, The curse came true cos one day those materials came to Thailand and we found out that he had lies....It's easy because we are living in Thailand and can trace back his data very accurate. There are a lot of living legends here. They just go and ask.

He'd never been to kate's class. He just went there with prance and then kick wood column in front of Kate's house. ( I don't use arrogrant or conceited, cos he fraud about flying monkey, so we call him lying monkey) Then Kate asked him what do u want and why did u do that? They had talked and that's it. Everthing ended there.

But in his book he wrote 4 names of his teachers Kate is included.

If u know GM Kate u will know that he didn't want his student to do such silly things. He didn't train his student to punch the wall or hit wooden thing. he said our body gave by mother and father u have to take care and protect it.

As in his camp, u'll never allowed to learn punch or kick until u can prove that ur defend skill can protect ur self from opponent's attack. It might took 6 months or year til then.

Why i said this because Sunthus wrote in Pantip sth like "if u said like this to Kate, he will command u to kick column in front of his house"....Damn it... He never knows Kate. Never understand what Kate was at all.

Back to his 4 names in his CD.

Apart of 2 real persons which never involved with Sunthus.

There are 2 names stated. Sunthus claimed one was old navy guy the other was cartoon illustrator. So friends of mine in Pantip trace back the public record. There were no those names even surnames in database. Then Sunthus replied they erased their data from database cos they didn't want to teach more student.....That's stupidest lie i've ever heard.....If u don't want to be known u just change ur name and surname then move to new location. That's it. Much easier than dig into database and erase it....How?

Though The one who serves Thai Navy must be Thai citizen. If u don't have ur record, how u serve then?

Big lie again.

[fire cobra]

Black Crown and George,

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and information on this subject,as I stated on a earlier post I for one am learning a great deal from this thread.

[black crown]

Black Crown and George,

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and information on this subject,as I stated on a earlier post I for one am learning a great deal from this thread.

You're welcome.

Honesty, I've read Sunthus writing for decade but i didn't want to write these things across the world. I didn't want to break Sunthus's gold pouch. But one day he started to abuse other teachers and lineages to tell how good he is. Even he rewrote history of Thailand and MT. Especially when he pulled the king down for his propaganda. He'd crossed the line. It's too much for me and others.

There are a lot of MT instructors across the world some are good some are bad. They may estrablish their own styles, their way of teaching. Who cares? They just sell what they have and what they are. But don't lie, don't tell how good they are by climb onto anybody's head. Don't mix things up and screw others. That's it.

Nice to talk to you fire cobra.

with respect,