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  • Muay Thai discussion and old pictures

    For those interested, there's a discussion and nice overview of old fighters and pictures in old Thai boxing issues, some nice pictures and discussion on the first foreigners (Urquidez, Wilson) who fought there:

    Message Board - Main Forum, Topic 'Old Muay Thai Pic Revisited'

  • #2
    Thanks for the link Tee Sok!



    William

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    • #3
      Some nice stuff on there. Thanks!

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      • #4
        I enjoyed that,thanks.

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        • #5
          Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "plow?"
          Thanks, nice pics!
          I was also under the impression Kaman was A LOT bigger than most Thai's!?! Or did he cut a lot of weight to make it down?

          Thanks
          Jake

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          • #6
            Jake:
            Rob kaman was listed as a light heavyweight and was 6'1", so in his younger days he probably choked down to middleweight to fight the Thais. Diesel Noi was also very tall and very thin. I mention that only because diesel noi fought Moncayo I believe and Rob fought him as well. Here is a bio from wikipedia:

            Rob "The Dutchman" Kaman (Born June 5, 1960) in Amsterdam is a retired 9 time kickboxing and Muay Thai world champion. Rob Kaman is considered by some to be the greatest kickboxer who ever lived.

            Often called "Mr. Low Kick" because of his feared low kicks which he used to set up a devastating offensive attacks. He has won matches using virtually every technique: high kicks, punches, combinations and takeovers. Kaman was an intelligent fighter who was almost always one step ahead of his competition.

            In his early days he played football for AFC Ajax Amsterdam Youth Team. Rob was a good player, but never liked team sports and at the age of 16 he started training in the martial arts. Kaman first practiced Pentjak Silat, an Indonesian art and in 1978 started training Muay Thai at Mejiro Gym with the legendary Dutch trainer Jan Plas.
            In 1980 Rob became an A-class fighter in the Netherlands. He won most of his fights by K.O. The turning point for him was his fight with Blinky Rodriquez, the cousin of Benny Urquidez. Rob knocked him out in the 2nd round with a low kick to the leg. That was his international breakthrough. From then on, Rob started fighting in Thailand.

            His first fight in Thailand was against Dennoi, a local champion. Rob won by K.O. and was asked to fight Lakchart, a Thai champion, in Bangkok. He lost that fight but also learned a lot from his loss.

            On the 23rd of September 1983 he fought John Moncayo for the world title WKA of kickboxing. Rob knocked him out in the 3rd round with a low kick and became the first European WKA world champion in kickboxing.
            On the 12th of January 1984 he fought Payap Premchai, the champion of Thailand, in the Jaap Edenhal in Amsterdam and after a great fight he was declared the winner by unanimous decision.

            In April 1984 he had a rematch with Moncayo in Miami, Florida. This time he knocked Moncayo out with a punch in the 2nd round. At the end of that year he beat the great Thai fighter Samart Prasanmirt in Hong Kong as well as Jean Marc Tonus for the European title of full contact.

            During the year 1985, he beat Larry McFadden in the 3rd round by a knockout and three months later he took his revenge on Lakchart. He knocked the Thai out in the 4th round.

            After that, Rob fought a lot of different fighters in Amsterdam: Ernest Simmons (WKA rules), Ernesto Hoost (WKA rules), Payap (rematch on Muay Thai rules), Roger Hurd (WKA rules) and Sittisak (Muay Thai rules). He won them all and at the end of 1987 the Japanese asked him to come fight in Japan.

            His first fight in Japan was against Lakchart. Rob knocked him out in the 1st round. Japan became 'Kaman-crazy' and from then on he fought many times in Japan. He fought against Kirkwood Walker, Hansu Premchai, Santiago Garza, Don Nakaya Nielsen, Carmichael (USA) and O'reagan (Ireland). He won all the fights.
            On the 9th of April 1989 Rob fought in Holland once again. This time against Jan Wessels from Arnhem. Rob also organized that event and did not have the time to prepare properly for the fight. He lost the fight and a lot of people thought that his career was over. At the end of the year he came back and beat Jan Wessels by knock out in the 2nd round for a WKA world title.

            During 1990 Rob played in the movie "Bloodfist" with Don Wilson and Billy Blanks and fought three times against Changpuek Kiatsongrit from Thailand and Eddy Matthieu from France. During the summer he had to fight in Japan against Peter Smit. Smit was a newcomer and a WKA European champion. Rob became a father with the birth of his son Gaby just before the fight. Rob lost his world title and almost everybody thought that Rob Kaman's kingdom was over.
            Kaman came back once again. He fought against the Japanese fighter Nishi in Japan and won by 1st round knock out. The promoters in Holland matched him a super fight with the new upcoming fighter Ernesto Hoost. Before the fight Hoost was the favorite but Kaman managed to knock him out in the 5th round. For most kickboxing fans, that fight with Ernesto Hoost is the best fight ever fought in Holland.

            On 29th of June 1991, Kaman fought Luc Verheye in France for the world WKA title. Luc Verheye had beaten Peter Smit and was the new world champion. This didn't last long Kaman beat Luc Verheye and took his title back. He fought in France against fighters like Rick Roufus, Mark Russell, Justin Ward, Zito Polyo etc. One of his best fights was against Marek Piotrowski, who he beat by K.O. in the 7th round.

            On 20th of June 1992 Rob fought "the fight of the fights" against Jean Yves Theriault, the greatest full contact champion ever. Rob won the fight by TKO and became the new ISKA world champion. He was at the same time world champion in WKA kickboxing and world champion in Muay Thai.

            On 26th of November 1993 Rob fought after three years in Holland, this time against another great Dutch champion Rick V.D. Vathorst. Kaman knocked him out in the 2nd round and showed the Dutch crowd that after all these years he was still the best.
            At the end of that year Nikko Toshogu Press produced 8 videotapes on Muay Thai training with Rob Kaman and one videotape with highlights and knock outs of his career. Rob also played in two movies with Jean Claude van Damme, "Maximum Risk" and "Double Team" with Dennis Rodman and Mickey Rourke. After that he fought again in France, this time in Marseilles, again against a newcomer from Holland, Orlando Breinburg. He won by TKO in the 3rd round.

            In 1995 he participated in the K-2 tournament in Paris, France. His first fight was against Lavelle Robinson and he won by KO. In his second fight he fought the Australian Tosca Petridis and was the winner again. In the finals after fought already two times that night he went against Jerome Turcan from France. Rob was full of injuries from his previous fights. During round 4 he was bleeding heavily and amazed everyone when he knocked Turcan out with two amazing high kicks at the end of the round. After all his world titles, he also won the K-2 tournament in Paris, France.

            After only a few fights in the later years, because of too many injuries and a new movie with Jean-Claude Van Damme (The Legionnaire), Rob decided to end his career, back where it all started, in Holland. On 24 October 1999, he fought for the last time, against Alexey Ignashov, a 21 year old amateur world champion in kickboxing. After an era of glory and power, his career had finally reached an end. The crowd gave him a standing ovation, when he stepped into the ring for the last time. Rob won the fight by points, but after the fight he said that his opponent was the real winner and gave his trophy to Alexey Ignashov.

            Currently, he is training UFC light heavyweight contender Brandon Vera on kickboxing for MMA. He also trains MMA fighter Jason Miller.


            Dailymotion - Highlights - Rob Kaman - une vidéo Sports et Extrême

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            • #7
              Thanks for that bio, that was a very good read.

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              • #8
                I just watched some of kaman's instructionals, the guys techniques are definitely clean and sharp. I like him.

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                • #9
                  Forgot to add something on the plow:
                  Its a technique thats been around a long time. I actually was practicing with some old style guys recently and they had a series of plow type movements.

                  Its based on a leg catch or grab, locked in and usually driven forward like a plow, usually sprung into the ropes then a move like a knee is driven into the target. Sometimes its a grab, push to throw, a grab, lift to throw or a grab and punch, or they also grab the base of the neck too, plow and throw the guy. They plow to drive the opponent off balance into some counter depending on the balance and the movement of the opponent.

                  It seems from what i was told it resulted in a lot of madness with guys being plowed over the top rope, through the ropes, and dumped really hard. So the refs started breaking it up, stopping the person from really running the opponent. I guess now its a short move, you grab, one or two steps tops and do something. We see alot of grab and slam, grab lift the opponent off balance and slam him down now.

                  I am just looking alot at it now because its a move that was really used alot in the 80s/90s, i started learning muay thai only 9 years ago so it was after that era though my trainer is excellent at it and uses it on me. I am sure others like firecobra can add to or clarify some ideas to this.

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                  • #10
                    Nice one George,yeah I have seen quite a few boxers go over the ropes or almost go over,it a dangerous but effective move,personally Im glad it was removed,Im all for effectiveness but Muay Thai has many(If not all!) effective moves so I dont think the plough is missed.

                    Also just out of interest to anybody If I remember correctly the Ploughs name in Thai is Tai Na and came from the buffalo or cow pulling a cart (Ie ploughing the fields).

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                    • #11
                      I love the move too but i do have to agree with you, firecobra, intentionally dumping a guy over the top rope, although effective really isnt part of the ring sport. I love to watch it though, so i am guilty of enjoying watching its ruthless efficiency over and over! I marvel how good some of those guys were with it. It almost made the guy hesitate about throwing a body kick without the right speed or momentum, or it would be caught. There are also good counters if your reaction time is good.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by george stando View Post
                        I love the move too but i do have to agree with you, firecobra, intentionally dumping a guy over the top rope, although effective really isnt part of the ring sport. I love to watch it though, so i am guilty of enjoying watching its ruthless efficiency over and over! I marvel how good some of those guys were with it. It almost made the guy hesitate about throwing a body kick without the right speed or momentum, or it would be caught. There are also good counters if your reaction time is good.
                        Im with you George,the study of the move and the attributes required to make it happen at high level,and then the possible counters make it a worthwile study whether it is used today or not.

                        Enjoy the journey George.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks George for the explanation! Makes sense.
                          I would have to argue against it being illegal or dismissed. If you kept "plowing" me (over, under or through the ropes) it would make me think twice about kicking, thusly changing a significant aspect of the game! But to each their own.

                          Thanks again,
                          Jake

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                          • #14
                            That's a very interesting technique, I never heard about that one before.
                            I agree with what has been said it's very dangerous in a ring, but definitely possible in an octagon or in a real confrontation.

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                            • #15
                              The plow

                              Sounds similar to some techniques we use off of a leg catch. I would use the term "drive forward", but plow works as just as well. Plow and stiff arm, plow and strike, plow off-balance and stomp. Quick shifts in direction for example off a catch: a quick pull back to off-balance them toward you and immediately shift direction and drive into them with an elbow or a clothes line/forearm smash to the head/neck. Also using variations off of counters and angling foot work. It tends to be a very effective maneuver when the opportunity is there.



                              William

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