The Chaiya Grape Kool Aid

[george stando]

I thought it being 2010, i would finally post my own rant about the spam that invades this forum on a yearly basis (not that i have been on here forever only isnce 2003).

Every year we have an EXPERT usually an anonymous figure with a great name explode onto the forum telling us WE dont UNDERSTAND true martial arts! That the secrets of mae mai and look mai will free us from the bonds of our simplistic and ape like muay thai!

In the cult of MUAY CHAIYA, one learns the true secrets of fighting............but one thing you must give up YOUR MIND! The space between your ears. The instruction we learn in muay thai(not chaiya) that gives us the freedom to act and react!

We had ample battles against these forces and they never provide the real proof to the question. In this real world of worldwide competition and the real world of life, whereas in the proof that muay chaiya is useful for anything other than forms competition, muay boran competitions and acting???????

One you tube site states one of the muay chaiya fighters is 300-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In this day and age? If so, why isnt he fighting people liek Buakaw or Annuawat or even Yodsenklai who I dont think is even up to 150 fights? If he is fighting innocent people and beating them up to prove they are better--what does that say about the person and the style? With this ample fighting record-i would hope there is a list of opponent, date, place and record of opponent and outcome of the bout for all 300!

Now for that 300-0 record--ones credibility is on the line--- is this another Kimbo Slice? Another joke waiting to be written? I mean exaggeration is one thing but reality is another.

The ideas that mae mai or look mai and the secrets will free us and educate us is a thing of the past. I live in the here and now of 2010!

Muay Chaiya is an interesting fighting art but they dont fight with it anymore, not in anywhere I heard of in thailand, Maybe in a secret corner like BLOODSPORT???????????? or in some movie of the mind?

The second thing is that each post here comes from a place of I KNOW THIS OR THAT BUT DO YOU? alluding to their superiority. Then the posts becomes just endless dribble.

Most of their rants are like kata discussions, your foot is not here and not there and your teacher doesnt know this or that or that or this. They fight among themselves which shows the teachers are not very mature for grown men and we see a situation that is juvenile at best. Do I want to do a system to revert back to being a child????????????????

In the posts here you can see the people are brainwashed usually foreigners looking for a style to save them from their mundane existence or to sell something once they get home. I dont know what it is> But it doesnt really do any merit or justice to the system.

Is brainwashing and cult like devotion and cult like attitude and behaviour part of the development of the Chaiya style itself? I mean one has to ask in light of this constant battering of superiority in light of nothing to prove it, its truly scary.

I mean if you want to show merit let go of the attitude, post something useful and intelligent(which is lacking in their posts) ALSO try to be RESPECTFUL! meaning you are not a member who contributes here but yet you come on here to yell and scream at the top of your lungs about this or that like a teacher giving a lecture to their students when in fact you are the one needing a lesson.

I get tons of IMS and emails about chaiya and some of these thai guys. But they do their own damage, just read what they write and what they say vs what they produce. Who would want to enter that world?

They can bag on muay thai or muay thai fighters ALLL they want. There aint no muay thai kai muay arjarn or fighter who is scared of them or their mae mai/look mai.

Muay Chaiya guys rant on about muay thai because not of those teachers or students have the guts to train and fight in any kai muay so its just criticize without merit or knowledge. If they experienced it on a daily level and over a long period of time, they would run home and cry to their moms and give up martial arts and talking for good!

And if any guys did then they know the truth and dont want to discuss it.

[kyuss]

i saw the utube postiing with the claim of 300 fightsthe kid looked good but why go to such lengths and obviously someone is going say who are the 300 i was into chaiya but even in the emails with the different schools they say alot of things that turned me off and awayseeing these kids post on here too is really bad for them.

[george stando]

well I understand the guy can fight and maybe does but to exaggerate a claim only backfires. I mean we have seen a cross section of people form different teachers all pretty much saying the same thing. They have the secrets and wink!Wink!ha!ha! lets see if you understand them because we certainly cant explain them to you in an intelligent manner. One thai person posts up a fight here on this forum a long time ago between a lek vs praeng fighter which was patheticand then on one site they denied it ever happened or it had nothing to do with a dispute until the footage showed up and the...........chaiya spin control...well that was not this and that was a while ago............those guys are no longer training or were this or that..........

I mean its a style like any other style. Talk about it the way people here talk about muay thai. Dont knock things you havent fought in or tried especially muay thai. If a person does live in a muay thai came for a sustained period, fights, he understands that life and the same for someone who trains in one of the old styles. If you knock something you should have that amount of training to say well it doesnt work for this or that reason. granted, old styles have some good ideas and techniques but saying superior or better means you have that experience to share and you should by example of what you have done to prove that.

Just show it, discuss it, demonstrate it and intelligently bring it out. It doesnt seem to happen without any fanfare or overindulged hype behind it. I will listen to anything well explained even if i disagree i will do it in the manner the person presents it. so far its only been through boasts, bullying and endless dribble so you just get the mirror of that back which people dont like.

If i came on this forum saying the shit they say like i got the secret mae mai, look mai, deadly elbows, 300 fights--i would expect to be run off or called on my statements then additionally baiting people by telling them lets see you fight!, come to my backyard so I can beat you up, or you dont understand how to put your foot in correct mae mai when the person cant even fight, or wont even show an example of anything even worthy of beyond amateur swing outs, the craziness is beyond words or intelligence.

[fire cobra]

Say it how it is George.

I had a e mail discussion with the guy who posted the you tube stuff about the guy who is supposed to have had 300 bouts,I told him I doubted this etc etc and why wasnt he fighting the top guys in Thailand(he had also said the guy had fought in Lumpinee).

Anyways he told me that they were 300 challenge matches,then he himself challenged me,told me I didnt know what I was talking about etc etc and he was sick of people like me knocking him and his work,I replied to the extent that I wasnt knocking him or his work and that I liked some of the stuff he puts up on you tube but that he should keep a open mind on what people tell him and what he belives as he wasnt that experienced in Muay Thai in my opinion,this didnt go down to well so I shut up.

[george stando]

Hi firecobra:
Wow, sorry to hear that. I got respect for you and were you have been and what you have done. I guess its easy to dismiss that when you live in an alternate universe.

You also have been very tolerant and accomodating of all the muay chaiya people on the forum trying to engage them in productive conversation so its all the more damaging and strange.

I think things have gotten way out of hand. They are trying to sell the system way too hard or something. If the chaiya guy fought in Lumpini then theres a record of time and opponent. I imagine in their promotional vids, they would show that fight because that would end the speculation and show it how it went down. I mean whats the big deal, there is a fight card every night of the damn week in thailand. If you want to fight, you can find a fight anyday of the week with a quality opponent especially if you say muay thai sucks!

He should also be facing opponents of like record and skill. Calling people to your backyard to beat them up is not a quality calling card. Look at Kimbo Slice. he beat people up in his yard and on the street. Same myth-- only to get shut down in the first instance of facing someone with a little bit of skill.

I see this whole unsavory affair is going to go on for some time into the future. Its the teachers really bringing this noise and the students brainwashed and all just passing the poison.

[fire cobra]

Thanks George,I really appreciate that.

Of course there would be a record and he would put it up as footage etc especially if he won!.

I really cant get my head around some of the Muay Chaiya people,I mean this same guy I spoke of above says on one of his videos that the Muay Chaiya low kick is much more devastating and effective than the Muay Thai low kick,I mean come on! pain is pain! that sort of talk is just that talk and usually spoken by people with little experience.

George I appreciate your honest expression on your posts,sometimes they can make me go ouch! and sometimes they make me laugh(your candidness) but always they are educational and from your heart.

Thanks bro.

[aseepish]

I fought in over 300 matches when I was in Thailand! Okay, so they were all rock-paper-scissor contests with the kids at the camp, but so what?? Those count, right? Right?? Thumb-wrestling? Tic-Tac-Toe???

[george stando]

Well, its important in this situation to note all the things being said so everyone on here can investigate for themselves and realize there is a lot of nonsense going on in the name of thai fighting. The 300-0 fights, the devastating low kicks, the secrets of mae mai/look mai, the hopping should be amply demonstrated in real time instead of being talked about endlessly. Show us dont tell us is the maxim. It seems alot of young kids are drawn to the stuff like a tall tale they tell you around a campfire when you were young.

It looks like they took a decent old fighting method and turned it into this superhuman thing just to sell and to push their ordinary teachers into sudden fighters and keepers of the secrets.

I mean at this point who can take any of this seriously. I guess we eagerly await the next person to drink the chaiya grape kool aid and start it up all over again.

[kyuss]

i originally got some nasty feedback as well when i questioned the record but i just dismissed it to some really crazed chaiya fanatic. the truth is the truth about these guys

[Johntlp]

i read most of the old posts recently. what can one say other than this thread nails it.

[mtdcha]

Really, George gave me a lot of help on the Chaiya issue. If it wasn't for him I might have been wasting a lot of my money!

[kyuss]

went back into this issue recently, what was great was that someone made mention of this forum and the clip of the kru preang match against kru lek's student, and they denied it happened then sopmeone searched out the thread and they said oh, yeah......like admiting it only when the footage showed up. they continue on with all this like a rampaging elephant.

[sportmuaythai]

Kru Preang clan seems to have discovered that their previous approach would bring in negative responses, and not the awe and respect they hope for. They have restrained from propaganda posts, and have even entered into a few amature fights. I feel that they getting on to a right track.

[george stando]

Not quite. Its going to be a long, long, long time before he is on the track. he is still selling the stock and bond of his secret mae mai/look mai and he has yet to prove its invincibility. Likewise i saw the amateur fights and there is no chaiya or chaiya structure in any of them which circles back to what the hell is he selling and teaching??????? When it comes to fighting, he never fought nor produced any fighters of note in any major event showing chaiya skill. Its about 25 years into his teaching career and now he has some amateur fighters. Does that mean the secret of chiaya will take me 25 years to get to a level of amateur fighter????????????????? He writes his own history of grappling which is bull....he creates his own krabi krabong system which is bull......thinks he has secrets which is bull......In thai circles, he is still brainwashing and pushing his cultish plans, he just quieted down a bit. We still have yet to see the other 300-0 chaiya fighter enter a MAJOR event and fight a MAJOR fighter of similar caliber and win. When i see that with CHAIYA structure and mae mai/look mai IN TACT I will become a believer....BUT it will never happen because its all nonsense...Dont believe the hype, your eyes are deceiving you.

[Johntlp]

i'm personally with george on this the damage is going to take years to fix plus they continue on just read some of the recent posts on here they are beyond nauseating and so stupid and foolish its beyond me why they continue.no one trusts them even in thailand, i think we have the secret george gave it away stay away from them!