Level 3 Thai Test

[Brian Patrick]

Why doesn't the Level 3 Thai test consist of punches or elbows? I don't want to sound like I am criticizing the test, I'm just curious as to why you are not required to show all your techniques. Thanks.

[PentjackSilat]

Thai Test

In the level 3 test the pad rounds are not meant to show form or knowledge of techniques.

Ajarn Chai asks you to demonstrate your ability to execute the techniques properly before you even get to the rounds.

What the 2 rounds are for is to see if you have heart, and will not give up against unbeatable odds.

To kick and knee takes more energy than punching and elbowing, on top of that you are getting the crap beat out of you and you aren't allowed to defend yourself.

Those rounds are not to show you can kick and knee, those rounds are to show you have the heart to be a Thai Fighter.

Hope this Helps,
Kedric Umaa
Apprentice Instructor
#1 Ranked IKF Super Middleweight Amateur Muay Thai Rules Fighter

[Brian Patrick]

Thank you, sir for answering my question. I am embarassed to say that I never even considered the obvious. The Level 3 Thai test being a test of spirit makes perfect sense.

[terry]

15 years ago there used to be two levels of testing: beginning and advanced. The advanced level had 5 rounds with Ajarn Chai as your sould pad holder. Two people have ever passed that test. I think one of them was James Jitsu, who also fought on the 1982 team that went to Thailand and who fought a very close fight with the bantamweight Thailand champion.*

Before writing out the new testing guidelines I talked with Ajarn Chai about what he thought of that test. He said it is very much a test of your defensive skill. If you can't defend well you'll never make it. I looked at it and thought it was a test suited to a professional Muay Thai fighter who had spent time fighting in Thailand. It was not something that would be applicable to most amateur level Muay Thai fighters, even the best ones. Well, so we changed it.

Don Garon added in all the officiating stuff like the kick counters, knee counters, time keepers. This was due in part to one test, Geoff Brock, where the crowd was cheering so loud for him that nobody heard the end of the music marking the round was over. Geoff wound up going six minutes with Ajarn Chai, and I counted that he got hit 55 times by Ajarn Chai's left leg. Geoff made it too (but then turned into a workaholic at Microsoft...Doh!)

Terry

*A tragic footnote to James' career was that after he came back he got involved in gangs and drugs and completely fell apart. Makes me sad because he would have made a great instructor.

[Brian]

Terry,

I heard that Khuen Khru Greg Nelson's test was quite horrific as well. Something about bruises being on his legs for two years after the test. Was this a different test than the level 3 test?

Also, is there somewhere where I could find a list of the requirements for the various TBA level tests?

Thanks for these awesome stories... I love hearing about you guys... Part of me wants to have been there when it all went down, the other part of me thanks the good lord for sparing me the pain.

Take Care,

[holte2]

test? what are you guys talking about is this soimething normal MT schools do or something else completly?

[OctaviousBP]

Within the TBA, an individual must pass the Level 3 thai test to become an apprentice instructor under Ajarn Chai. The tests usually take place at a seminar given by Ajarn Chai, and entail the above mentioned requisites.

The first and second level tests are performed under ones own instructor. To be honest I haven't a clue what is required under these tests anymore. However, what I remember is that:

For the first test, the student needs to have been studying for at least 6 months (perhaps a year...) and be able to demonstrate sound fundamentals in muay thai. The student then must complete two rounds of pad work, throwing a minimum of 50 kicks and 35 knees, with no (or minimal) feedback from the holder.

The second test, I believe is more of the same, with an increased intensity from the pad holder. At my school, the level two test took place after the student performed 10 rounds straight of a minimum of 100 kicks per round. I also seem to recall ironman clinch work after, however I might be mixing things up a little. I don't believe performing the test this way is required by Ajarn, but it's not necessarily a bad idea.

D

P.S. none of this is official, this is just what I remember off the top of my head. I *think* this information is online somewhere. The main TBA website is a good place to start.

[terry]

I can give you an official answer: Nope. The testing guidelines aren't on the website at the moment. It isn't a secret or anything, and I think it might be useful to publish them. However, I'm not sure I can find the guidelines at the moment in my house after moving a bunch of stuff out to the garage to make room for the nursery. I may have to get them from somebody and type them in. (*Doh*)

In general, I would like to see much more information added to the TBA website. The challenge is getting the bandwidth to do so.

Regards,

Terry
TBA

[Mike Goldbach]

Terry wrote:

"15 years ago there used to be two levels of testing: beginning and advanced. The advanced level had 5 rounds with Ajarn Chai as your sould pad holder. Two people have ever passed that test. I think one of them was James Jitsu, who also fought on the 1982 team that went to Thailand and who fought a very close fight with the bantamweight Thailand champion.* "

In the early days, Chai had no tests for anything. You were either a fighter or you weren't. If you were a fighter, you had a won-loss record. That was it. The "instructor tests" seem to be an outgrowth of the seminar approach that Chai embraced sometime in the mid to late 80's.

James Jitsu was pretty one-dimensional in my opinion. He had a decent kick (like virtually ALL of Chai's fighters of that time), but not much else, notwithstanding his success in the ring. The best fighter Chai ever produced, in my opinion, was Glen Hernandez. Glen was 17 at that time and had everything, good hands, great kicks, powerful elbows and knees, and superior ring savy. He was a virtual carbon copy of Chai. There were a number of other fighters who had better skills than James also: Jim VanOver, Danny Cox, Donn and Guy Boyd, and Reggie Jackson to name a few. Jim still trains fighters in San Bernardino, I believe. I'm not sure what the others are up to.

From the cheap seats,

Mike Goldbach

[chalambok]

Here is my two cents worth, being of the era after Mike Goldbach and before the current era where there are required specific techniques to be demonstrated in a required order (the 15-count, whatever that is), plus various demonstrations of form and a presentation of the fighter's wai kru. When I tested, it was after a seminar and Master Chai simply told me, "Steve, you're up. Take your shirt off." Then he held the pads for me for two rounds, and when he said kick I had to double kick. If he kicked at my right leg I had to jump back and double kick with that leg. When he kicked at my front leg I had to switch kick, again a double. There were no knees, no wai kru, although I had to show him the old wai kru before I was allowed to teach. It was explained to me that what I was demonstrating was my ability to defend myself from someone determined to attack me. Now that I hold for other people testing, I am working on my ability to attack someone who is determined not to let me. See how it works? First you learn to defend and then you learn to attack. How very quintessentially Thai. As I have stated before, I believe the tests themselves are much harder now, more physical in a way, partly because every holder wants to knock out every tester. But when Master Chai held the pads it was very much a mental test. Personally it felt like a three-hundred-pound man was standing on my stomach. And the knockdown occurred several times a round. Master Chai himself told me he no longer holds because he has found enough core people, enough people who have demonstrated heart and their loyalty to him and to muay Thai so the Association will continue, whatever may happen to him.
As personal aside to Mike Goldbach, all of us here in the Northwest are glad you are becoming active again, and I hope to see you around this next summer. Master Chai will be here in Portland probably June, the camp begins late July, then he will be in Seattle in August.

[skilzkid]

I found the TBA test guidelines at:

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/mt/tbatest.html

Is this accurate? If so, someone should clean them up and put them on thaiboxing.com (I could do the HTML/PHP, but I have no clue what the actual tests entail).

[JIMI]

Why is it that all the testing for all levels only consist of 2, 3minute rounds? All the amatuer fights that i have known of have always been 3, 3minute rounds. Doesnt it sound better to at least go the minimum 3 rounds. I am just curious, because im assuming that you would want to train and perform as if the testing you are doing is just like a real fight.