elbow advice

[sidekick]

I've been taught to use the tip of my elbow when striking, but recently another instructor advised using the flat of the forearm just before the elbow. Your suggestions and why?

[JIMI]

im no expert or instructor so please take this with a grain of salt, my best guess is that maybe it has something with bone against bone. elbow to forehead. ive always wondered if you could break your elbow on another persons head. maybe its a tactic thing. you have to be that much closer to engage in elbows and maybe just below the elbow is less damaging to you. more mass, more suface area? i dunno just my 2 cents

[Brian]

I'm certainly no expert either but I would assume that the portion of the elbow that you use depends both upon what you want to accomplish as well as what actually happens when you execute your elbow.

I was taught to use the last silver dollar sized portion of the elbow. But I can see how maybe some would teach to use a little bit further down the arm so that if your opponent were to move slightly away when you threw your elbow, you would still make some contact with the tip.

I think on a stationary target the tip would produce more cuts while lower on the arm (not too low mind you) would have more of a solid, knockout type of effect. And then I'm sure, if you hit it just right, you'd get the cut and the knockout effect.

Just my humble take on the matter.

[DJ Coldfusion]

Alright, here's another non-expert.

Any strike, no-matter what the strike, will do the most damage when you hit with the most mass at the highest level of accelleration with the least amount of rebound.

We all know the formula force = mass x acceleration (P = Ma) right?

The mass of a weapon combined with the level of acceleration at point of impact determines the power generated.

Another element that must be considered is the point of application (where on the elbow). Basically, if your point of application is not on the tip of the elbow then you will lower both the operational mass and the achievable level of acceleration, which will lower the amount of force in your strike. It would be like hitting a nail with the neck (handle) instead of the head of a hammer.

Hitting with the bony part of the elbow will reduce rebound due to a lack of extraneous flesh that can (I should say "does") absorb and redistribute some of the force.

So, using the bony "silver dollar sized portion of the elbow" [quoted -- Brian] will deliver the maximum amount of force to your target.

Now, remembering that I honestly don’t know diddly, I would have to think that the instruction had some other tactical reason beyond pure generation of force. Which is pretty much what the other posters said, so I have effectively blabbered myself into incoherence.

Good luck with your training.

[terry]

You have to be careful where you throw the elbow. Aim for the neck, ear, temple, nose, eye areas. Hit the jaw with an upward or diagonal-up elbow, but watch out with hitting the jaw with a horizontal or down elbow. If you hit the teeth you'll be picking teeth out of your forearm. Also, if you aim for the skull you may not do as much damage as you want.

I've seen some people say to use the forearm. My suspicion is that this has to do with distance. In other words, the most common mistake on using elbows is for people to mis-judge the distance. So, throwing it on the forearm gives you a margin of error, and it still does damage. Ajarn Chai tends to have people close w/ their footwork and hit farther out towards the end of the elbow. Regardless of how you throw your first elbow, your 2nd elbow is really the one you will have to close with footwork in order to land.

One of the better elbow fights I saw was between James Jitsu and the Japanese champion. James trapped his forearms and delivered three down elbows. The fight lasted 7 seconds and resulted in 44 stitches to the face of that guy.

T

[Guest]

I often hear people quote "force = mass x acceleration", and then go on to try to estimate the "mass" of the striking weapon.
It isn't the mass of the weapon at all. It is the total mass you put into the technique, especially bodyweight.

Imagine throwing a punch with just your arm, and then throwing a right cross with bodyweight. Which has more force? The cross, as it has bodyweight substantially adding to the mass.

Aim to hit with the hard bone, thats all you need worry about. It is a trade off. The further down the arm the better power potential you have (simple leverage), but the higher risk of missing.

[sidekick]

Thanks for your replies. The reason this other instructor said to use the forearm before the elbow was to stop injury to yourself.

I was taught to hit with the tip of the elbow and pass through the target. Whereas, elbowing with the forearm means you'd stop on the target and then pull the arm back before launching the next attack.

I guess whatever happens, happens and you just have to adjust. But please, keep the opinions coming...

Elbow: tip or shaft? (heh, heh... unsubtle joke)

[terry]

My experience with throwing elbows is that I generally hit the target and, to my surprise, usually broke the bones (cheek, temple) I was aiming for with no damage to my elbow. However, I wasn't able to use the elbow combinations I had trained because the guy went back several feet after I landed the first elbow shot. That's why I emphasize a little more advancing footwork and that little neck grab thingie (I think it translates as 'bird peeping through the nest') these days.

Terry

[Guest]

I've developed a lead elbow technique that arcs both forwards and downwards into the bag. I use a drop step, landing the blow just before my lead foot hits the ground.

I haven't actually hit anyone with it yet but, if the power on the bag is anything to go by, this thing would knock out a Rhino.