krabi-krabong part 1: the knife

[GonzoStyles]

thank you very much Chalambok! could you explain how the Mai sok is a thigh killer? I have always been curious about its use in Krabi-Krabong especially since it is lashed to the forearm I believe.

[chalambok]

Well, it is not so much lashed to the forearm, as there is a strap over the forearm to prevent it from spinning off during hard contact. This strap can also be used to hold the upper end if you wish to use the handles to strip a weapon or even to break a wrist. The reason the mai sok are such thigh killers: proper form requires being able to touch the ground with your hands at all times, forcing you to hop around like a monkey. Fighting from this position means you only have to defend your higher lines, and you can easily kick your opponent's lower legs, or take his balance.

[chalambok]

Early Training

I thought I would try to keep this thread going, partly because no one at krabi_krabong@yahoogroups seems to wish to discuss anything...lol (they are more like you all here, all questions but no opinions) and partly to show how muay Thai is interrelated to Krabi-Krabong so closely that to study one without studying the other is to learn but half of the art. Notice in this first picture I am trying to stab Master Chai, but he uses the handle of his sword to deflect outside, meanwhile protecting his left forearm and body with the sheath. The sword Master Chai is using, by the way, is an antique that I found at a secondhand store in Hermiston, Oregon for $15. Just goes to show you can find anything if you look hard enough.

[chalambok]

Step 2

Here you see Master Chai has already taken complete control, staying in a safe position all the while. The sheath is between my blade and his body, he has threaded his blade over my arm.

[chalambok]

Step 3

Here Master Chai has followed his previous movement, lifting my arm over his shoulder, closing inside my swing radius while grabbing my hair with his left hand. And yes, I used to have hair, but as you can see it was already beginning to fade even in 1989.

[chalambok]

Step 4

Of course, the end is inevitable. Master Chai can either insert the point into my throat and rip it apart, or slice my head off as he pulls my body to the ground by my ponytail. He is being a nice guy using the back of the blade.

[chalambok]

Naturally, I go to the ground

With much giggling and happiness I am finished off. As my head rolls in the grass I am hooked forever. Good job Master Chai !

[Caddock]

Chalambok,

Thank you for that. Unfortunately I know so little about the other half of the art (or even the half I study for that matter) that I am bound to be one of the full of questions types. I do appreciate you sharing that with us.

[GonzoStyles]

Chalambok, I thought I would bump this thread to keep it going as it has been one of the better threads here lately. What does anyone know about
"competition" Krabi Krabong? I beleive outside of Thailand it would probably be very rare indeed if ever having occured. I am just wondering if it is judged on purely ascetics, or is it judged by knowledge skill in techniques, what about kicks, take downs and other strikes are they delivered with partial force? Do they play a role in the judging?

oh By the way I managed to find out the name for dagger in KK, it is
"Meed sahn"


well thank you for your time and I hope this post keeps on going!

[chalambok]

Back in the year 2000, Master Chai and Dan Inosanto and myself paid for Colonel Nattapong to come over from Thailand and teach a little at the Pacific Northwest Muay Thai Camp. At that time, the Colonel was the Chief Instructor to the Royal Family, and worked with the King of Thailand for an hour of Krabi-Krabong almost every day. He invited me to come with him to some little-known places in Thailand where there are still Krabi-Krabong competitions; usually invitation only and seldom, if ever, photographed. My guess would be, because the Thai are the ultimate pragmatists in all of their fighting arts, the winner would be the person who survived...lol There are some clips floating around the Internet of demonstrations that look unscripted, so it could seem to be competition although I think the players are very familiar with each other in the ones I have seen. I also think that the players, like Thai fighters, decide beforehand how far they wish to go, how much power, kicks to kidneys or the back and knees, things like that. After all, the most important thing is that the art continues, not that someone's ego gets stoked for a few days until someone takes him out for good. There are many times in a muay Thai bout where a fighter's career, and the fight, could be ended with kicks to the knee. But you rarely see this happen. There is a kind of unwritten rule about this, maybe because the fighters are usually poor and they all know families' lives literally depend upon the money a fighter earns over his entire career. Maybe because they know if they ruin a career, someone will pay to have their career ruined soon. The same ethic applies in Krabi-Krabong competitions, I believe. Anyone who has actually gotten into an all-out weapon fight knows if it goes 7 moves it is a long contest. But I don't know for sure. The only 'fights' I ever got into were at the Buddhai Swan when someone would freak out. Almost invariably the most experienced practitioner would shut the other person down. I didn't become the only person in the Americas promoted to Class 8 by Ajarn Samai Masamarn because I cannot control my emotions during a training session. When the shit hits the fan, the experience of 56 combat assaults and 200 night ambushes shows true. By the way, there is a Krabi-Krabong discussion forum at yahoo groups, although there has been very little discussion in the 3 years it has been in existence. I occasionally post pictures and my seminar schedule there, but everyone else just waits...

[Tee Sok]

"and the fight, could be ended with kicks to the knee. But you rarely see this happen. There is a kind of unwritten rule about this, maybe because the fighters are usually poor and they all know families' lives literally depend upon the money a fighter earns over his entire career. Maybe because they know if they ruin a career, someone will pay to have their career ruined soon."

I agree with this. Some years ago two fighters from my old gym went to Pattaya to train and fight. The first one had a bad attitude on the ring, he didn't respect his opponent and sometimes mocked him. I think he also blocked his kicks with the knees, which is not really standard and hurts more.
Anyway, his Thai opponent started kicking at knee level and finally sent him
home with torn ligaments. Carreer ruined.
The other one went well, ko'ed his opponent and later came back and won the champion trophy. He was 18 years old at the time and started training at 15.

http://www.megathai.it/italia/menu%20portale/articoli_pubblicati/2003/dicembre/renny/invio.htm

and

http://www.megathai.it/italia/menu%20portale/articoli_pubblicati/articoli%20binmbi/renni.htm

You can see some pictures, but the text is in Italian-sorry.

[GonzoStyles]

it's funny when I tell people who talk about wanting to go to Thailand to train/compete that they need to leave their attitude stateside, the Thai Krus/fighters I have met are some of the nicest people ever! despite the fact they could easily make you wear your ass for a hat!

another question for you Chalambok if you dont mind, I have heard that Krabi Krabong contains some empty handed versus knife defense techniques.
If this is so, could you tell us a bit about them? Krabi being a total system from what I have heard (weapons, striking, and even some grappling) I wondered what the focus was on empty hand versus weapon.
does it concentrate on disarming the attacker? or disabling him? my guess is with a war art like KK that it contains all of these elements.

[chalambok]

Yes, you are correct. In general, a knife is treated like a shortened sword, meaning distancing and timing are critical. And no matter how much I may choose to say or not say here, the simple fact is some things are unexplainable without the requisite practice.

[chalambok]

Thought You Might Get a Kick Out of This

This picture was taken the first day of training for Mike Walrath, Greg Nelson and myself in January of 1992. Tony Moore from Manchester, England happened to drop by, and trained with us for a bit. He currently is the only foreigner to have been promoted to Class 9. Kru O (on left) and Kru A (on right) are presently filming a martial arts picture in France. While they are absent from the school in Ayuthaya City, teaching is being ably handled by Ajarn Worayuth (their older brother) and Ajarn Aht (their younger sister). The next day our feet started bleeding from the rough concrete. We were so short on funds that I bought a loaf of bread, Mike bought peanut butter, and Greg bought jam. For 3 days we lived on PB&J sandwiches and Red Bull. Happy Birthday PaKroo (May 5), we miss you.

[chalambok]

Filming

Here is a picture of myself and Ajarn Aht, one of my instructors, and currently teaching at the Buddhai Sawan in Ayuthaya City. This was for a film crew from Europe, and also for Thai television. Note that even the other instructors are taking pictures from the sidelines. I had attacked her leg with my staff, and she stop-blocked, lifted over and sidekicks. Because she had a staff and I a staff, I had tried to muscle her. Everyone, believe me, loves to see the little girl beat up the man.