Importance of Roadwork

[OctaviousBP]

We have a saying in our gym.... "If you can't run, you can't fight."

Funny, we have the exact same saying

[gregimotis]

My old coach: "If you want to be a fighter, you have to be a runner"

[Khun Kao]

Octavious, that is almost EXACTLY how I fight train! My anecdotal evidence is very similar, except that most of my experience is self-taught. Unfortunately, that is one thing my Thai coaches never taught me.... how to run properly for fight training.

I used to do LSD running only. But that translated into the way I fought. I was always trying to keep a specific pace. Granted, I won most of the time, but even I recognized that there was an issue, because my opponents would often get an early (and UNCOMFORTABLE) jump on me in the early round/s, but I'd win with my slow and steady approach, outlasting them in the end.

I started mixing in harder runs and sprints, it helped out IMMENSELY! My energy level in training and the ring noticeably improved (and I started scoring KO's, which had eluded me before!)

Now when I fight train, I start training off doing LSD's, start mixing in harder and harder runs, until I am running sprints in intervals (I still mix in some LSD's and hard runs on "off" days). I only had an "energy level" issue in one fight this last year... my first one because it was my first fight after a long, long layoff (10 years)

[Ghost]

ive been thinking recently about replacing alot of the long runs with sprints, ive been thinking this based on the relatively short length of a muay thai fight or even a street fight.

anyone got any thoughts on this>?

[Khun Kao]

Ghost....

You need both. As both Octavious and I have mentioned, one of the best approaches (from our EXPERIENCE, nothing scientific backing this up) is to start with long, slow runs. Then over time, shorten the runs by running harder and faster. As you get closer to fight time, you should be running sprints.

Thats if you're fight training or prepping for something like that.

[Bauer]

Running is not used to strengthen the legs; it is used to build cardiovascular endurance. The difference between sprinting and distance running, however, is something that none of you should ignore. Running at a constant rate builds the aerobic stamina that you need to remain active for long periods, but doing sprints builds anaerobic endurance, which is important for keeping your intensity up. Anaerobic, in a nutshell, is when your body is burning fuel inefficiently. This happens when you sprint, or explode in motion. It is the difference between jogging and sprinting, or tossing some outside jabs and exploding forward with a rush of punches. You need to train both so that you do not "gas out.”

One training method I would personally recommend is "High Intensity Training.” HIT training is basically interval training. After you do your normal runs, or even during them if you can manage; for a period of at least 15 minutes, sprint for 40 seconds followed by 20 seconds of regular running speed. Do this repeatedly for 15 to 20 minutes and you will take your endurance to new levels.

[Tom Yum]

I'm up to about ten miles a week, split between two five mile runs. Even with that minimal amount of work, my legs are coming back, and my conditioning has improved drastically. I dropped 40 pounds of that extra weight, and I have decent footwork again. Bottom line, don't neglect the road!!

Mike, we need you on the running thread in the fitness section!

[Patrick G.]

Running is not used to strengthen the legs; it is used to build cardiovascular endurance. The difference between sprinting and distance running, however, is something that none of you should ignore. Running at a constant rate builds the aerobic stamina that you need to remain active for long periods, but doing sprints builds anaerobic endurance, which is important for keeping your intensity up. Anaerobic, in a nutshell, is when your body is burning fuel inefficiently. This happens when you sprint, or explode in motion. It is the difference between jogging and sprinting, or tossing some outside jabs and exploding forward with a rush of punches. You need to train both so that you do not "gas out.”

One training method I would personally recommend is "High Intensity Training.” HIT training is basically interval training. After you do your normal runs, or even during them if you can manage; for a period of at least 15 minutes, sprint for 40 seconds followed by 20 seconds of regular running speed. Do this repeatedly for 15 to 20 minutes and you will take your endurance to new levels.

Hhahaaha, this is EXACTLY the way I run!

And, YES, you hit it right on the head...you have to work on your aerobic and anaerobic systems...two seperate things...."Anaerobic" is basically how your body uses energy without the presence of oxygen and "aerobic" is vice-versa...

I prefer to mix my runs up on both the treadmill and roadwork...I can more precisely measure my sprints, distance, and times on the treadmill, which will in turn help me with my runs on the road...this also puts less wear on my joints, as I plan on being able to fight well into my 80's..he,he...(the shock absorbency of the better professional "gym" style treadmills absorb more impact than even the best running shoes..also they usually have a "speed interval training button that you can preset a jog/run speed to) The only thing is, when I run on the treadmill, I'll run about 20% or so further than I will on the roadwork, since it is a little easier...

When I run, I usually jog the first mile or so to warm up a little, then I mix in 1/4 mile sprint, then jog, then 1/4 mile sprint, etc...I'll do at least (2) 1/4 mile sprints per mile that I run...the very last sprint is not a sprint, but an all out "run" like I stole something...

Oh yeah, and I have an Apple iPod nano/ Nike + running shoes that is one of the coolest things you've probably seen in a while...Basically, the Nike's have a chip that you insert under the sole, and the iPod magically displays your current pace, calories burnt, distance (miles or kilometers), and more, all while your listening to your favorite tunes....the female voice comes on and tells you what your distance and pace are at preset intervals...you can also upload the total run results online and graph it, compare it to other people's runs, etc...

For more info, go to www.nikeplus.com

[Bauer]

Well I am glad that my first post actually has some replies! And I agree, if Mike runs that much, he could potentially solve our energy independence problem single handedly. I prefer to do my intervals on an elliptical machine or in the pool. I used to swim in high school, and even though I weigh 230lbs, I can still swim like a mofo. If you want to work your shoulders and lats, hop in the pool!

[theprophet]

I try to stay away from long distance running, interval running is what I do. You don't want to train much slow twitch at all, as fighters we need fast twitch IMHO. Who would you rather fight, the guy who can go 10 rounds or the guy who can do 10 rounds worth of work in 5?

[theprophet]

The guy who trains both, and can work like the devil all the way through ten scares me the most.

Common misconception is that training slow-twitch muscle somehow diminishes your fast-twitch. It doesn't. Training one to the exclusion of the other does. If you train both, you'll have both.

I understand that. But in my case, being an amateur MT boxer, I want to be more fast then slow twitch. We fight only three 2 minute rounds at high intensity. In my opinion that screams fast twitch. I am not saying I don't train slow twitch at all, just not nearly as much as fast.

[Rasta]

Great thread - I have a question to pose though. What sort of advice do you all give to someone with bad knees?

I've been training Muay Thai for almost three years now. Every time I try to work in running outdoors into my routine, I end up sidelining myself for days because of knee pain. A little more than a year ago, I was preparing for a fight, and kicked up my running regimen - specifically my sprints. My instructor gave me some great advice, and I set up my runs around a soccer field - jog around the field a few time to warm up, then sprint the length, jog the width, sprint the length, jog the width, repeat.

Anyway, I ended up tearing my miniscus, and had forgo the fight and lay low for a while. And this on-again, off-again process has been pretty prevalent every time I've tried to work long-distance (outside) running into my routine.

I find when I can run, I love it. I love being winded, and being able to keep going, do one more sprint, push just a little harder. But every time I do, I end up doing more damage than good.

Any advice for how to set up a routine that will stay within the bounds so my knees won't rebel?

[Tom Yum]

Anyway, I ended up tearing my miniscus, and had forgo the fight and lay low for a while. And this on-again, off-again process has been pretty prevalent every time I've tried to work long-distance (outside) running into my routine.

I find when I can run, I love it. I love being winded, and being able to keep going, do one more sprint, push just a little harder. But every time I do, I end up doing more damage than good.

Any advice for how to set up a routine that will stay within the bounds so my knees won't rebel?

So you can run intervals but not LD? Are you running on a softer surface - say an asphalt track? The pavement can be hard on some people's knees; when I first started running on pavement I had some shin/knee pain but its gone away.

You might try wrapping your knee as well as getting those gel additions to your shoes?

[Rasta]

Yeah - I can totally run in intervals. Even in class, we usually warm up by running in a circle around the perimeter of the mat, and work in calisthenics. That doesn't affect my knees at all, as it's usually fairly low speed, on a mat, and for a short duration.

The times when I run outside, it's usually on a sidewalk/asphalt. I'll give it a try again though, but focus on staying on trails, and softer surfaces.

Thanks for the tips

[bigred389]

Yeah - I can totally run in intervals. Even in class, we usually warm up by running in a circle around the perimeter of the mat, and work in calisthenics. That doesn't affect my knees at all, as it's usually fairly low speed, on a mat, and for a short duration.

The times when I run outside, it's usually on a sidewalk/asphalt. I'll give it a try again though, but focus on staying on trails, and softer surfaces.

Thanks for the tips

Just throwing this out there...I had a knee issue as well...made running pretty uncomfortable.

I ended up doing a lot of calisthenics to strengthen the legs(squats, leg raises, flutter kicks) and focused on high speed short distance intervals.
I also focused on running form which reduced impact signifcantly. Pretty soon I moved up from topping out at .5 miles to doing 2 comfortably.