As a Thai Boxer, say yes or no to weights ?

[ncalpunker]

Yes, but the point is that it's difficult if not impossible to determine anything more than a generalization about weight training methods without doing a detailed study for every person attempting a routine. In other words, there's no telling what works unless we try it ourselves. "Strength" is just too vague a term to be used as any type of variable in choosing a training strategy. Let alone how strong someone looks (as Pavel used as an indicator, lol). No matter what their "strength", Pavel and Arnold are both "stronger" than I am, so for them to have differing routines makes choosing one over another arbitrary.

Besides, they are both extremely unhealthy according to the CDC's BMI, so best to stay away from them altogether.


Agreed.

Well you can capitalize on research that has already been conducted. I mean your muscles are muscles, same as any other human being. The difference usually being the number of slow vs fast twitch muscle fibers. But they have determined that the fast twitch are directly connected to overall strength and they have also concluded that 80% - 100% of your 1 rep max is the range you need to work in in order to build the fast twitch. Plus most people forget that you need to change how much you lift and how you lift it. You, essentially, need to be continously stressing your body and "tricking" it so that you don't plateau.

I guess I am overly fascinated with all of this, only cause I have used these kinds of things my entire life (football, powerlifting, highland games) and now trying to apply them for Muay Thai.

Anyhow, this topic is getting crazy. I have read a lot of material on the subject and two really good books (by same author) are:

Designing programs:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0880118512/qid=1128119737/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4297820-7592155?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Understanding how strength works for sports:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0736042660/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/102-4297820-7592155?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[EmptyneSs]

u want some extra mass and strength if u are a martial artist. u want that xtra muscle to hold your neck and back firm and protect them with xtra muscle, as well as the rest of your body. u wanna cover your abbs and chest with as much hard muscle as possible in order to protect your vital organs and ribs. and for sure u want your bones to get stronger so u dont get hurt as easily if u are in a confrontation. u want to be as strong as possible, because if u know how to fight well without strength, u know how to properly exploit your own extra strength when needed. as a martial artist, u are foolish not to reap these easily attainable benefits. lifting makes u stronger and faster and gives u xtra protection. not only that but lifting boosts your immunity. when i was skinny kid get sick a few times a year. now i hardly ever get sick. lift hard.

[seppuku]

true. getting hit in the gut really hurts if there's no muscle there. but when the muscle is in place... you get punched/kneed in the stomach and grin then hit back... its better that way around. significantly better

p.s. im pretty skinny (6 foot 2 or 3, 10 stone 7 or so) and never seem to get ill. but then... theres muscle to me, just no fat atm

[Maxx]

The Right Types of Resistance Training

There are several different schools of thought when it comes to wieght training: Body Building, Power Lifting and Olympic/Modified Olympic Lifting are some examples.

Body Building while great for developing mass is not ideal for a fighter. The movements are performed in slow, controlled motions and isolate body parts. Since most fighters need to be explosive and use their whole bodies, probably not a good choice unless you want to increase your muscle mass.

A program which utilizes modified olympic lifting techniques is probably best for fighters. The movements are explosive, generally incorporate the whole body and offer a great cardiovascular benefit when performed for repetitions.

Combining a sound olympic lifting program with a good cardiovascular program involving interval training and wind sprints will greatly improve your performance.

It would also be wise to spend time working on the muscles of the core. While crunches, sit ups and leg lifts are all staples of any fighting gym, there are other exercises which wll also greatly increase your abdominal strength such as cable wood choppers, cable punches and cable pulls. These types of exercises don't isolate areas of the core region like sit ups and crunches do, rather they hit the entire core area and not only make it stronger but teach the body to use all of the muscles of that area in unison.

[Maxx]

Check out http://www.crossfit.com for some great training ideas. The site is completely dedicated to sports specific training and contains a lot of video clips as well as concepts and theories on how to cycle you training.

[Rhanor]

Lifting wieghts is not necessary to be good at Muay Thai. Its more about speed and agility than anything esle. Also, if you spend 3 hours a day training, whether its lifting wieghts or sparring think about it this way. When I see a big buff ripped dude who trains in thai boxing I wonder...This guy is spending more time in the gym than training. Big bulky muscles only slow you down...I suggest doing lots of body weight exercises such as pull ups, squats, sit ups, pushups, chin ups... stuff like that. But its all about what you want to do...just my opinion.

[LAO HILLTRIBE]

Do The Figters In Thailand Lift Weights?of Couse This Question Is Only Directed To The Vets Who Actually Trained In Thailand And Know First Hand?

[EmptyneSs]

Big bulky muscles only slow you down...

theres that myth again

[Rhanor]

theres that myth again

Its not really a myth... I weight right now 170 pounds. About 6 months ago, I wieghed 188 and had been lifting weights. I was pretty big, but I was bulky. I fought like that for about 4-5 months and got used to it. I was a lot stronger, but now when I look back I sacrificed my speed to be stronger. I do think though some level of lifting weights is ideal for thai boxing. If you are down too your fighting weight, I think 5-8 pounds of muscle on top of your perfect/ lowest body weight would be taking advantage of lifting while training. You can also never let lifting get in the way of training... At 170, im pretty lean and I dont really like it too much soo I have been lifting wieghts. Its just, if you dont do it right you will be wasting your time. Also it really just comes down to personal preference... I perfer to be more agile, conditioned, and explosive. Thats just me though.

[BANG's Protégé]

When I train I get a real good work out just training. Then stretching helps. I think that you can get musle just by training but lifting could help too. I lift a little and train too so i am some what confused on what to say for the topic question.

[EmptyneSs]

lifting weights has only benefited me and my ma training. ive been lifting for like 4-5 years now, on a very consistent basis. i lift like 2-3 days a week in addition to my ma trainig. ive gained 20 lbs of muscle from lifting and eating right. even after gaining 20lbs of muscle, i dont even look big, my body is just more toned and a bit more filled out. i for sure didnt get so big that it compromised my speed. in fact, if anything it increased my speed and overall performance. unless you are huge to begin with or take roids, lifting weights wont really make you that big and bulky. weight lifting will never get you looking like a pro body builder, not even powerlifters look like roided out pro bodybuilders. it just fills you out a bit and gets you toned and increases your strength. just compare arnold and stallone. stallone trained his ass off with a pro bodybuilder, working out twice a day, five days a week. he got muscular but he wasnt big and bulky even after training like a pro bodybuilder.this is because stallone didnt take roids. arnold on the other hand was huge and massive. he took tons of roids in his bodybuilding days. and even still, you can be as big as a pro bodybuilder and not lose any speed. all you have to do is watch some pro wrestling on tv to see 300 lb bodybuilders on steroids doing all kinds of acrobatics and arial techniques. the undertaker who is over 300 lbs, and almost 7 feet tall can walk on the ropes of the ring, immage how much agilty he has. or look at football players, alot of those guys are huge and dont even look in shape and are pretty fast. its a complete myth. as long as you keep training your cardio and speed as well, its all good.

also, cardio and speed are indeed more important than weight lifting for ma, and if your ma training includes tons of cardio drills, and pushups, situps, and other weightless workouts then thats all you really need. that alone will get you in shape. howeverm weightlifting properly on the side to supplement your ma training has tons of benefits that can only aid you and make you a stronger athlete over all. i mean, at the very least, you do want some strength as a martial artist, if only so some douche wont be able to easily overpower you.

[tweaker]

there are other exercises which wll also greatly increase your abdominal strength such as cable wood choppers, cable punches and cable pulls.

I don't know these exercises. Can somebody explain?

[theprophet]

Currently supplimenting Muay Thai training with kettlebells.

[ne122]

I heard that lifting weights stunts your growth. What do you do for weights is you don`t want to develope big muscles ? It`s like what bruce lee did, he wanted to get stronger without making his muscles bigger.

Actually, that is a myth that has been around for awhile and is not true. Weightlifting does not stunt your growth. In fact, running and jumping can put forces 6-8 times your weight onto your body and like I've read from others putting posts up on this forum, they suggest other forms for a cardio workout like swimming, just because of the forces going against your body when running and jumping. If you want examples, look at Arnold Schwarzenegger. He started lifting in his teens and grew to 6'1. Another famous body builder, Lou Ferrigno, started lifting at 5'9 and is now 6'5. Michael Jordan was 5'9 in highschool and didn't start growing taller till he hit college. NFL players are another example. If you have good form and you're not going for your max or lifting for competition, then you should be fine. If you are going to lift a lot, make sure you have someone to spot you.

[jeff5]

I've started lifting again as well. I'm on a pretty good program, but I still want to find one that's specific or at least most beneficial to martial artists. Does anyone have any links or book recommendations on good lifting programs specifically for MMA, Martial Artists, Boxers, etc.?