As a Thai Boxer, say yes or no to weights ?

[sportmuaythai]

yeah im not going to go into this in too much depth but my personal feeling is that there is more of a place for weight training than is given recognition for in Muay Thai.
Im interested in thai boxing for self degence as well though. not just ring sport. At that point it becomes a very different game and weight training is far more effective.
Id rather be competing at 100kg, strong but ripped, than 85kg scrawny.

The MMA guys you describe are not what im talking about.

Dear ghost, I just realized that you're into the dark cult.

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?p=276949#post276949

[Ghost]

Dear ghost, I just realized that you're into the dark cult.
http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...949#post276949

no, dont make assumptions, ive never taken steroids, though i do know about them.
i wouldnt rule out ever taking them though, but i havent as yet.

not that it should make any difference either way.

Im not a Sith Lord.... yet

[fightstuff]

I knew my response would stir up a reaction. I didn't mean any offense guys.

Ghost I do get where you are coming from with how fights are refereed in the West and Thai. I don't want to get into the different styles on this thread, as that one deserves a thread on it's own, because you have different styles even in Thailand depending on what province you are in. For Example, Muay Chaiya.

SportMuayThai - BUt thailand is better for training clinch knee This is a generalisation.

Also you are wrong on the learned skill answer. I suggest you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory. Trust me I'm right ;-)

Thanks,


John

[sportmuaythai]

SportMuayThai - BUt thailand is better for training clinch knee This is a generalisation.

Also you are wrong on the learned skill answer. I suggest you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory. Trust me I'm right ;-)

Thanks,


John

Dear fightstuff, I beleieve what you quoted is not what I've posted. It's Ghost"s. Pls show the link.
As for muscles memory, I find it strange. Doing some thing requires the brain to trigger it, unless it's muscles spasm. Is the author of this wikipedia article an authority on muscles physiology? Ghost you're evidently a body builder. What is your view on this? I'll have to do a little research on this.
I still do not trust you since I don't recall making above statement. Pls show the link

Also sportmuaythai to generalise that all Thais are good with clinch and elbow is a stereotype. Boxers should be assessed one by one and not just by their nationality.

You twisted what you previously quoted. Now you're saying that I wrote
"BUt thailand is better for training clinch knee"

[Ghost]

Dear fightstuff, I beleieve what you quoted is not what I've posted. It's Ghost"s. Pls show the link.
As for muscles memory, I find it strange. Doing some thing requires the brain to trigger it, unless it's muscles spasm. Is the author of this wikipedia article an authority on muscles physiology? Ghost you're evidently a body builder. What is your view on this? I'll have to do a little research on this.
I still do not trust you since I don't recall making above statement. Pls show the link

You twisted what you previously quoted. Now you're saying that I wrote
"BUt thailand is better for training clinch knee"

My opinion on muscle memory is the same as yours, it includes learned motor skills.
Most evidence shows this.

"Muscle memory" is the terminology used by muscle physiologists to describe the phenomenon of skeletal muscle activity that is learned and becomes essentially automatic with practice.
This same phenomenon of learning and "memorizing" sequences of skeletal muscle activities or behaviors occurs for various tasks besides walking and is much of what athletes are doing when they are training for a particular sport.

source

http://www.hhmi.org/cgi-bin/askascientist/highlight.pl?kw=&file=answers%2Fstructure%2Fans_015.html

As for the clinch knee thing, yeah i think that is me fightstuff is quoting and thinking its you, but i stand by it. It is a generalisation, i stated that already and i dont see a problem with that.

As for weights training there are different types, i dont train as a body builder.

Some reading if you are interested:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1494202&cr=

its about functional hypertrophy for athletes. Its also an eye opener as to where weights training has evolved to today. beyond simply just "pumping iron".

I also do silly things like getting the gf to sit in the car and i push the car along for 5X3 mins. in a park near me which has a relatively unused road in it, really early in the morning. stop the car when 3 mins is up, 1 min rest then push again as far as possible, i start at the same place in the morning and i measure if im getting better by the final resting point after 5X3 mins. its full body. hard as hell. cant do this in thailand though really, i might suggest it sometime though!
I find this type of training far more productive than the 1 hour slow jog stuff that doesnt really acheive any relevant cardio or muscular gains. ***opens can of worms***

[fightstuff]

Apologies sportmuaythai my bad. Regarding muscle memory and learned skill, if you look what everyone is writing it is the same thing. They just use a different terminology. What you guys called Learned Skill other people called Muscle Memory. No one is wrong. We are both right. It just so happens that people are using different terminology to mean the same thing. Learned skill may make more sense to you guys, but muscle memory makes more sense for me and it always the terminology I have used when teaching.

[sportmuaythai]

After two references, particularly from C. Subah Packer, Ph.D., associate professor, Department of Cellular and Integrative Physiology, I'll have to accept the terminology of muscle memory. Dear fightstuff, no hard feeling.

[fightstuff]

Don't worry about. We are all still learning and we will never stop :-)

[James137]

I've been taught that cables and free weights, high reps (12-15 or so) are best...you don't lose flexibility in your arms. I was a weightlifter before getting into MT and my GF would always make fun of the way I walked because my arms were always partially bent...I definitely lost some range of motion from lifting just for mass.

My trainer tells me, half jokingly, that you don't want to be laying down in training or in a fight (i.e. bench press).

Single leg squats are great, too, for balance. Those are f*cking hard.

[chamberlainJ]

Lifting can stut the growth of children but that doesnt apply for all children I lift weights everyother day and im 13 and im 5'9" 135 lbs my growth has surely not been stunted. Im almost as tall as my father is (5'11"). Also, if kids lift weights alot it will not stut there growth because they will acctually grow so much because of the weights.

[chamberlainJ]

I've been taught that cables and free weights, high reps (12-15 or so) are best...you don't lose flexibility in your arms. I was a weightlifter before getting into MT and my GF would always make fun of the way I walked because my arms were always partially bent...I definitely lost some range of motion from lifting just for mass.

My trainer tells me, half jokingly, that you don't want to be laying down in training or in a fight (i.e. bench press).


Single leg squats are great, too, for balance. Those are f*cking hard.

To build stamina and to become ripped you do high reps such as 15-20. That doesnt mean that you should get an easy weight and do 15-20 you should be struggling on the last few.

However, I do 15-20 weights on curls and preacher curls. Thats what makes ripped triceps and ripped biceps. Then I do high weights on bench press to build chest strength and the part that attaches ur arm and chest for a better punch.

[Ghost]

To build stamina and to become ripped you do high reps such as 15-20. That doesnt mean that you should get an easy weight and do 15-20 you should be struggling on the last few.

However, I do 15-20 weights on curls and preacher curls. Thats what makes ripped triceps and ripped biceps. Then I do high weights on bench press to build chest strength and the part that attaches ur arm and chest for a better punch.

complete rubbish, being ripped is about BF%
Weights training you are doing has nothing to do with anything and is non functional.
You need to get up to date and learn the difference between functional strength training and useless movements that are bodybuilding based that wont serve any function.
There is more to it than taking bodybuilding exercises and simply increasing the rep range. sorry.

[docthai]

If you are doing REAL Muay Thai ... then NO.

If you are training TWICE a Day, SIX Days a week then ... you are too tired to lift weights and besides you are trying to lose weight.

Here is some Thai PAD training:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A2389AC71BABB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WB7drCfzWg

AoNangThaiBoxGym@gmail.com

[Marksmarkou]

Well weights will definatly help. Your muscles will become stronger along with your ligaments, which will help you to produce faster and stronger strikes and also take hard shots better. People think that you will get too big and unflexible when doing weights. The reality is it is very hard to become massive. You would have to train with weights daily and eat lots and lots of calories. Becuase of your other training this will be nearly impossble and becuase you should be aiming to stay in a certain weight category you wont wont to over eat at the dinner table. Train weights, dont make them your main focus, stretch, spar, do bag work also and you will notice the qualities weights offer.

[Bruce-Lee]

I am 110KG and I lift weights, I think it is more important for us bigger guys to lift weights and make sure our extra weight stays as muscle rather than fat. Guys like 50kg-70kg for example don't need to lift weights as the typical human body will naturally allow a person of that size to stay lean through bagwork and cardio.

When you get over 80kg I think it is easier to hold excess dat and I have found unless I lift weights, I do...