At what point do you hit someone?

[terry]

So, are there any attorneys that can provide some details on the financial and other costs of successfully defending:

A) a misdemeanor battery criminal indictment with a follow-on civil action for medical expenses as well as pain, suffering and punitive damages?

B) a felony battery criminal indictment with the same follow-on civil action?

I figure you have to pay for attorneys fees at $250.00 per hour. Plus you may have to fund much of the factual discovery prior to the pre-trial hearing. That means employing a private investigator to interview witnesses at maybe $75.00 to $100.00 per hour. The depositions as well as any pre-trial hearings and/or motions would be done by your attorney again at $250.00 per hour. I'm not sure what the total would be, but I suspect that in the event of a successful defense of a misdemeanor case that didn't go beyond the pre-trial stage and had no follow on civil action you might be out, say, $8000.00. Add another $6,000.00 if it goes to trial--just on the criminal case. Then, if a factual basis was established during the criminal phase to support a follow-on civil action, you would then be out another $5-10 thousand dollars in legal fees, and that doesn't include actual damages awarded in the case.

Anyway, this is speculation on my part just from having students that are prosecuting attorneys. Thus, this is pretty much a SWAG. Any attorneys out there care to give a professional estimate on either the misdemeanor or the felony defense? (I bet the felony defense gets up near the price of a house in a lot of areas.)

Terry

[ryanhall]

Due to the high probability of criminal charges being brought against you even if you are in the right, it is usually a good idea to exit to stage right after any kind of physical altercation that would not absolutely require you to stay (i.e. a family member/friend is hurt, you have to hold someone up, or a major problem still exists). If the police come looking for you, then cooperate. If not, then you may have saved yourself a large sum of money. Just one of the many reasons why it is always a good idea to avoid violent confrontation in the "real world."

[terry]

Yep. How much do you have to loose? Although a district attorney may not approach your case with this attitude, a personal injury attorney DEFINITELY will.

If you can: Avoid the possibility of the appearance of impropriety. That means using good judgement on a pro-active basis to keep out of situations that could be harmful to your life.

Sometimes, just by being at the wrong place at the wrong time, you are thrust into a no-win position. Protect yourself, to be sure, but also read the law. Consider things like:

A) Do you have an exit?
B) Do they have the means, the intent and the opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm or death to you?
C) Would a reasonable person, such as a juror, feel you were justified in your use of force?

Unpracticable? Unfair? Too risky? Perhaps, but that is the legal standard you will be held to if it comes down to that.

It's not about ego, guys. It's about money. Don't forget that.

And the FIRST thing I would do with my woman is to sit her down and tell her that, 'I AINT takin' a fall over yer ass. If you start a fight, you finish it.' She can fight her own battles. (Heh, fortunately for me, mine can.)

And, if you really do wind up in jail over a battery charge, I'm sure there will be some bulls who will be happy to find out just how tough you are.

Terry

[Tory]

I understand where you are coming from eXcessive on the defense side and LEO. I am just trying to let others know what they may be up against in Criminal Law. Many do not.

All I am trying to say is if you are going to use force and self-defense, you better know what the law says concerning its use.

That will help you on the criminal side of the law. In a civil matter, just because you were in the right on the criminal side of the law is not a defense in civil court, that has been proven many times over.

On the civil side, the main thing to keep in mind is "What would a resonable and prudent person have done in the same situation?"
LEO's have to use that in civil court when it comes to shootings and so-called police brutality suits to defend themselves in court. Unfortunately, just because the LEO is justified in whatever actions he/she used, doesnt fly in civil court as a defense. Yet once again, thanks to all of the Liberal Judges and Lawyers out there.

If you have to think "Am I doing the right thing?" then you most likely aren't doing the right thing. But if all else fails, remember this, it's better to be alive and face legal charges than not be alive or seriously injured.

[bbbb]

?

Maybe I better not take up boxing!!

[@@@]

as soon as they raise the decibels land one in the mouth. let it escalate and itll get out of hand. they can be a she be a he i dont give a shit try to run it ill rub there face against the concrete. l
latst guy tried to run at sunday football thought hes nang ( laughfed at me when i fell) i waited for the ball to reach him and instead of kicking the ball i gave him a left blow.
Bottom line if they land one youll be seeing stars on the floor and you dont know when they gonna stop.

[mma_fan81]

Being a New Yorker I must say the most important thing to consider is legal liability. If you strike first, it’s tough to justify it as self defense, but not impossible.

Understand the difference between assault and battery. Assault is committed when someone puts you in reasonable fear of your wellbeing. Battery is the actual act of any unwanted contact (legally a tap on the shoulder can be considered “battery”.

So if someone approaches you in a threatening way (assault), go ahead and knock him out. If a person approaches you in a dark street, staring right at you, and suddenly reaches into his pocket, go ahead and knock him out. If someone has already “battered” you, go ahead and knock him out.

If you have to appear in court, explain it to the judge. Always keep your story consistent. Don’t lie because witnesses will be questioned too to verify your statement of facts. Just make sure your actions are justifiable in the eyes of a jury. You will HAVE to show that you had good reason to fear your personal safety. As long as you can do this, go ahead and knock the fucker out.

[B.M.S]

I usually hit someone when they are about to hit me or if they flip out a weapon and keep coming closer. Because it has happened before

[swisscom]

Chalice,

I realize that you are a LEO and that this is your area of expertise, but I must disagree. When a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm or death exists, the law clearly gives you the leeway to use proactive force. Of course, one must be reasonable, but the option is there. If someone says "I'm going to f$cking kill you, you little b!tch," and they potentially are able to do this, you definitely have the right to strike first. The court does take into account relatives size and strength of the two (or more) people involved. That said, you need to be able to rationalize your action with something better than "I was scared." Offering rationale for your actions is very important. That's why you should NEVER, repeat NEVER answer questions for the police before consulting an attorney first. In the aftermath of a confrontation, you will likely be adrenalized, excited, possibly scared, and not thinking clearly. The police will arrest everyone at the scene, so keeping your mouth shut is advisable. The phrase "anything you say or do can and will be used against you in a court of law" is not a joke. DO NOT MAKE ANY STATEMENTS. Better yet, if you have the opportunity to take off before the law arrives, you might want to do it. The aggressor or criminal often presses charges against the victim. If it's your word against his, there's no telling who will come out on top legally.

The part about the
"don't talk to cops after they take you in because you have adrenaline and you'll probably say something stupid"

*shocked and amazed*

i would have NEVER thought of that point.. thank you so much
if there is ever any advice i'll remember, its this.

Well, assuming it would happen of course.

Hmm... question.
Wouldn't beating them to the point where they cannot harm you anymore, and then running away as far and fast as possible be the best course of action?

Seems to make the most sense..

[academian]

Wouldn't beating them to the point where they cannot harm you anymore, and then running away as far and fast as possible be the best course of action?

Seems to make the most sense..

YEA,THAT SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD
But I usually block or dodge 2 or 3 hits just to show them that they cant hit me then if they persist I will usually throw them and tell them to chill and If they get up and persist on attacking I just put them in a pain compliance hold and make them say silly shit like "I'm a dumb **** Everyone look at me I'm a dumb ****. They usually go away after that if not then I just knock them out and leave unless there is lots of people around then I put them in a restraning hold and have someone dial 911

[swisscom]

iono.. obviously I'm just saying this.. I couldn't prove myself wrong unless I was in a similar situation again.

But if I was in a situation where someone is standing about a meter away from me. Tells me to give him money or else he'll stab me? depending on how much trainging i've went through, and how confident im feeling. The course of action would probably be.

1. Jab Jab, Cross, Roundhouse to the head. (hopefully that is enough?) I would feed him hits until he couldn't stand up thats for sure.
2. Sprint somewhere? preferably far away from the scene

Again.. I'll never know if i'd go through with this plan until it came again.. the first time it was just.

*blah blah start of convo*
"I dont have money"
*goes to reach in my pocket*
"hey buddy fcuk off..."

"give me your fcuking money or i'll beat your fcuking skull in"
then his friend was convinced I had nothing.. and they left.

I was young.. scared.. iono. I think it would be different now.

--------------------------------------------------

To answer the initial question "At what point do you hit someone"
I think in my oppinion, I guess it's the "popular" one around here? I'd hit them if they endangered me, or gave me any thought as if they were going to endanger my saftey at all.

Someone said earlier, (something along the lines of)
"even a martial arts master could be knocked out by a surprise hit to the head"
Another quote is
"If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself"

I wouldnt expect the law to help me out in a fight, i also wouldnt depend on anyone other than myself... hmm im just kind of rambling on im noticing...
I'm not getting to a point at all hahaha.. well then that was a waste of 10 minutes.

I guess the concept of what I wrote can be summed up by saying.
If someone involves, or attempts to involve you in something that you do not wish to be involved in, end it. By whatever means nessesary.

The police are around to "serve and protect" it sure would be nice if they could pop up instantly whenever someone needed them.

Rambles....~~~

[Garland]

I say it depends on the person's financial situation...
if they's rich, take the hits and file a civil suit.
Could make some skrill.

[Muay Siam]

the best way to defend your self is to avoid fights
RUN
if they follow, cut corners
no one will harm you if you did them no harm,
if you harm those who harm you, they will harm you back, and then a never ending circle of vengeance

[swisscom]

no one will harm you if you did them no harm,

That's.. Kind of bullshit.. No offense.

There are people who make livings off robbing/mugging other people. Are you saying the people they mug did harm to them? ...no I think you're wrong there. But yeah.. I agree running is the best choice. But if it's not an option.. then ~~

[SimonM]

This is in response to Crouchtig's original post.

When would I hit somebody?

1: When they had already tried to hit me.
2: When they had already tried to hit a friend.
3: When we have agreed to spar.
4: When they start giving too much attention to a lady who is not reciprocating.
5: If they were in the commission of crimes in which the victim is not a voluntary participant.